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Denafrips 'Pontus' R2R ladder DAC - close up view
Apr 29, 2021 at 2:06 PM Post #151 of 1,787
CalvinandHobbes2020 said:
100%. I was running the Ares II with a $1.5k pair of XLR interconnects. The Pontus II with a pair of $65 DH Labs White Lightning RCA is night-and-day better all around than the Ares II from every perspective. (transparency, pace, tonal quality of instruments and voices, ability to follow the tune).
Click to expand...
A pair of $1500 balanced interconnects, really, why? But I suspect you figured that out when you spent the money on a better piece of equipment rather than a piece of wire, yes?
 
Apr 29, 2021 at 2:52 PM Post #152 of 1,787
daytrader said:
A pair of $1500 balanced interconnects, really, why? But I suspect you figured that out when you spent the money on a better piece of equipment rather than a piece of wire, yes?
Click to expand...
The interconnects were loaned to me by a friend, who in turn got them from his father-in-law. As I had no other XLR interconnects, those $1500 interconnects were cheaper than anything else I would have to buy on my own. No way on my own that I would spend that much on interconnects before getting equipment right and then only by trying something out to see if I l clearly heard a difference. (i.e., not sitting there A/B testing for hours).

Just for your entertainment, I was running the $750 Ares DAC with a $500 Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord and the $1500 Kimber Kable XLR interconnects...all loaned to me by the same friend. I didn't exactly know how much the XLR interconnects cost until recently, but knew enough to take really good care of them. The Synergistic power cord did make the Ares DAC sound smoother and clearer. I'm not so sure that the Kimber interconnects made much of a difference.

While we are on the topic of cables and tweaks, this is what actually made the most and 2nd most difference in sound quality with the Ares DAC:
  1. Turning off WiFi & HDMI output on my Pro-ject streamer & using an Ethernet cable from an access point from a Wi-Fi extender. Apparently getting that RF noise out of the streamer has a HUGE impact on sound quality. Cost: $0 for turning off WiFi & HDMI. $30 for a TP-Link RE230 Wi-Fi extender.
  2. Switching from an AmazonBasics Cat 6 Ethernet cable to a Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable to the streamer. The improvement was about 50-75% of the difference made by switching from Wi-Fi to the Ethernet cable. Cost: $65 for a 2 meter Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable.
Total Cost: $95

So yes. Especially if I were spending my own money, the $95 that I spent on Ethernet equipment had probably at least 10x the benefit of the $1500 Kimber Kable XLR interconnects.

But, I can now tell you that an Ares DAC running through the balanced XLR outputs don't sound better than the Pontus running through RCA interconnects with a level of assurance that you're unlikely to hear from anyone else. Because no one else in their right mind would buy a pair of $1500 interconnects to use with a $750 Ares DAC.
 
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Apr 29, 2021 at 3:42 PM Post #153 of 1,787
CalvinandHobbes2020 said:
The interconnects were loaned to me by a friend, who in turn got them from his father-in-law. As I had no other XLR interconnects, those $1500 interconnects were cheaper than anything else I would have to buy on my own. No way on my own that I would spend that much on interconnects before getting equipment right and then only by trying something out to see if I l clearly heard a difference. (i.e., not sitting there A/B testing for an hours).

Just for your entertainment, I was running the $750 Ares DAC with a $500 Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord and the $1500 Kimber Kable XLR interconnects...all loaned to me by the same friend. I didn't exactly know how much the XLR interconnects cost until recently, but knew enough to take really good care of them. The Synergistic power cord did make the Ares DAC sound smoother and clearer. I'm not so sure that the Kimber interconnects made much of a difference.

While we are on the topic of cables and tweaks, this is what actually made the most and 2nd most difference in sound quality with the Ares DAC:
  1. Turning off WiFi & HDMI output on my Pro-ject streamer & using an Ethernet cable from an access point from a Wi-Fi extender. Apparently getting that RF noise out of the streamer has a HUGE impact on sound quality. Cost: $0 for turning off WiFi & HDMI. $30 for a TP-Link RE230 Wi-Fi extender.
  2. Switching from an AmazonBasics Cat 6 Ethernet cable to a Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable to the streamer. The improvement was about 50-75% of the difference made by switching from Wi-Fi to the Ethernet cable. Cost: $65 for a 2 meter Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable.
Total Cost: $95

So yes. Especially if I were spending my own money, the $95 that I spent on Ethernet equipment had probably at least 10x the benefit of the $1500 Kimber Kable XLR interconnects.

But, I can now tell you that an Ares DAC running through the balanced XLR outputs don't sound better than the Pontus running through RCA interconnects with a level of assurance that you're unlikely to hear from anyone else. Because no one else in their right mind would buy a pair of $1500 interconnects to use with a $750 Ares DAC.
Click to expand...
This advice on buying extender and using ethernet cable is really helpful. I was thinking on exactly the same solution but wondered if connecting to extender (which uses wi fi) does make a difference to connecting directly through wi fi. Thanks for this.
 
Apr 29, 2021 at 4:18 PM Post #154 of 1,787
bpiotrow13 said:
This advice on buying extender and using ethernet cable is really helpful. I was thinking on exactly the same solution but wondered if connecting to extender (which uses wi fi) does make a difference to connecting directly through wi fi. Thanks for this.
Click to expand...
It is unclear whether extender is making any difference and why is in use. I think it is important to run Ethernet cable to a streamer and WiFi extender is needed to avoid a direct wired connection to the AP where many other devices are connected to a switch port (adding ground loops to the cable). Is it right?
 
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Apr 29, 2021 at 4:33 PM Post #155 of 1,787
bpiotrow13 said:
This advice on buying extender and using ethernet cable is really helpful. I was thinking on exactly the same solution but wondered if connecting to extender (which uses wi fi) does make a difference to connecting directly through wi fi. Thanks for this.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think that just getting the Wi-Fi receiver out of the streamer makes a significant difference.

Thought for you. Buy the Wi-Fi extender and Ethernet cable from Amazon. Return both if you don't hear an improvement pretty quickly. Worry about a "better" Ethernet cable later. Maybe some cable burn in MIGHT be needed, but I heard a drastic improvement right away.
 
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Apr 29, 2021 at 4:49 PM Post #156 of 1,787
sajunky said:
It is unclear whether extender is making any difference and why is in use. I think it is important to run Ethernet cable to a streamer and WiFi extender is needed to avoid a direct wired connection to the AP where many other devices are connected to a switch port (adding ground loops to the cable). Is it right?
Click to expand...
I think so. It just minimises interferences. This is how i understand this.
 
Apr 29, 2021 at 5:12 PM Post #157 of 1,787
CalvinandHobbes2020 said:
The interconnects were loaned to me by a friend, who in turn got them from his father-in-law. As I had no other XLR interconnects, those $1500 interconnects were cheaper than anything else I would have to buy on my own. No way on my own that I would spend that much on interconnects before getting equipment right and then only by trying something out to see if I l clearly heard a difference. (i.e., not sitting there A/B testing for an hours).

Just for your entertainment, I was running the $750 Ares DAC with a $500 Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord and the $1500 Kimber Kable XLR interconnects...all loaned to me by the same friend. I didn't exactly know how much the XLR interconnects cost until recently, but knew enough to take really good care of them. The Synergistic power cord did make the Ares DAC sound smoother and clearer. I'm not so sure that the Kimber interconnects made much of a difference.

While we are on the topic of cables and tweaks, this is what actually made the most and 2nd most difference in sound quality with the Ares DAC:
  1. Turning off WiFi & HDMI output on my Pro-ject streamer & using an Ethernet cable from an access point from a Wi-Fi extender. Apparently getting that RF noise out of the streamer has a HUGE impact on sound quality. Cost: $0 for turning off WiFi & HDMI. $30 for a TP-Link RE230 Wi-Fi extender.
  2. Switching from an AmazonBasics Cat 6 Ethernet cable to a Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable to the streamer. The improvement was about 50-75% of the difference made by switching from Wi-Fi to the Ethernet cable. Cost: $65 for a 2 meter Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable.
Total Cost: $95

So yes. Especially if I were spending my own money, the $95 that I spent on Ethernet equipment had probably at least 10x the benefit of the $1500 Kimber Kable XLR interconnects.

But, I can now tell you that an Ares DAC running through the balanced XLR outputs don't sound better than the Pontus running through RCA interconnects with a level of assurance that you're unlikely to hear from anyone else. Because no one else in their right mind would buy a pair of $1500 interconnects to use with a $750 Ares DAC.
Click to expand...
Two things.

First, I currently own both the Ares II and the Pontus II, the former plays in my Stax ear speaker system, the latter in my home audio system. So I agree with your conclusion but will add within the restrictions of earphone presentation, the Ares is really good. Not until I did an A/B comparison within my home audio system did I detect a huge difference, no doubt a result of the power supply found in the Pontus. But for eardrums, it got damn close.

Second, A friend of mine ownes Synergistic Research power cables, bought used and I’m guessing on the cheap(as he is) for use in his home audio system back some 10 years ago, I think it was and as far as I know still does? Told me back then he would never get ride of them, he really liked what they did to his system. So I’m with you there too!

So back to overpriced cables. They can make a system sound different but not always better and at times worse. And unless we are talking silver or gold strands which will make a cable uber expensive, there just ain’t no reason for buying the hype.

And last but not least, $95 likely well spent!
 
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Apr 29, 2021 at 6:00 PM Post #158 of 1,787
sajunky said:
It is unclear whether extender is making any difference and why is in use. I think it is important to run Ethernet cable to a streamer and WiFi extender is needed to avoid a direct wired connection to the AP where many other devices are connected to a switch port (adding ground loops to the cable). Is it right?
Click to expand...
I used the Wi-Fi extender to avoid running 50 feet of Ethernet cable through my house and up the stairs. Ideally, I would have avoided using a Wi-Fi device to create an Ethernet access point, but this was a compromise to avoid having a ton of exposed cable running through my house.

Not sure if just using an Ethernet cable alone would sound better, but I'm satisfied with the improvement from using the Wi-Fi extender as the difference was immediately apparent to me. (i.e., not spending days doing A/B testing and critical listening)
 
Apr 29, 2021 at 7:53 PM Post #159 of 1,787
CalvinandHobbes2020 said:
Not sure if just using an Ethernet cable alone would sound better, but I'm satisfied with the improvement from using the Wi-Fi extender as the difference was immediately apparent to me. (i.e., not spending days doing A/B testing and critical listening)
Click to expand...
So it was unintentional, but I must say, you hit a right spot. First disabling on-board HF components, secondly it was like following the best advice from experienced users avoiding ground loops on the LAN network, good choice. :)
 
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Apr 30, 2021 at 5:34 PM Post #161 of 1,787
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