DENAFRIPS 'ARES' R2R discrete ladder DAC - close up view
Apr 26, 2022 at 4:14 AM Post #3,211 of 3,330

GoldenOne

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It would be interesting to know how this information that Ares 2 may be a not real NOS dac has effected to the listening experiences related to Ares 2. Has the music started to cause less invigorating listening experiences among Ares listeners after these shocking news?
I'd hope not unless someone was expectation-biasing themselves to a ridiculous extent
The Ares 2 is a great sounding DAC
 
Apr 26, 2022 at 5:43 AM Post #3,212 of 3,330

sajunky

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It would be interesting to know how this information that Ares 2 may be a not real NOS dac has effected to the listening experiences related to Ares 2. Has the music started to cause less invigorating listening experiences among Ares listeners after these shocking news?
It makes you less comfortable, and yes, listening pleasure very depends on our mood. However I don't think you bought Ares for the invigorating listening experience, but for a smooth signature and not fatiguing sound, so I don't think knowing this fact will affect your mood. Ares sound is like NOS, just is less aggressive, less punchy than true NOS implementations, more relaxing. Note that a linear interpolation is a reconstruction method without any use of DSP.

A different impact is observed on Holo Audio users. It is not surprising, as they didn't buy it for digital pre-processing or a blured dynamics due to added ultrasonic frequency scrambling (similar in effect to the noise shaping in Delta-Sigma implementations), but for a natural sound NOS can produce. Some users reported on the beginning that Holo didn't sound like NOS DAC, but more similar to DS implementations. The reviewers even targeted for comparison not R2R DACs, but Chord DACs which are DS type. In such situation facts that Holo Audio DAC is not a true NOS are very disturbing and may not be even admissible, due to our human nature.
 
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Apr 26, 2022 at 8:45 AM Post #3,213 of 3,330

sajunky

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SAJUNKY: You make valid points. I suggest you post GoldenSound's video and links to his forum output (Audiophilestyle, THIS thread on head-fi, etc; see Refs below) on diyaudio's forum. Or, I'd encourage GoldenSound himself to post his claims directly. I would do it myself but I have been banned from that place for being overly critical of their moderation.

In any case, DIYAUDIO is the best place to set the record straight on the Denafrips R2R technical issues because:
I am not going to go after Denafrips case, due to a minor violation of rules with no DSP involved, see my previous post.

However I have already raised Holo Audio case on the diyaudio forum, not knowing that someone else had raised the same objection a thousand messages back, in the same thread. This technically oriented community had no problems understanding arguments presented about presence of digital filtering, there was only one objection which was cleared out after supplying additional explanation. The other violation (ultrasonic scrambling used for linearizing ladder errors) could not be proven remotely, but it prompted discussion about dithering techniques in general, with various links to scientific papers, chosing optimal parameters and even bringing up 'Havana' case as an example of using US made ultrasonic military jamming device. Interesting thread, but very long, you must be patient, here is a link. :)

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/what-do-you-think-makes-nos-sound-different.371931/
 
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Apr 26, 2022 at 6:03 PM Post #3,214 of 3,330

MacMan31

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I have long been interested in this DAC. It seems to sell fast on the used market such as on CAM. I have a Bifrost II already so is the Ares II worth the purchase? Has anyone here compared the two?
 
Apr 26, 2022 at 11:12 PM Post #3,215 of 3,330

Serge Bernamej

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Hello gentlemen, need some help please !
I have a NAD m51, I play ONLY CDs using a CD transport. Is it worth buying the Denafrips Ares ? Upgrade from the NAD M51 ?
Wou.d immensely appreciate your responses.
 
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Apr 29, 2022 at 7:24 AM Post #3,220 of 3,330

Sebbai

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Anyone know if it is possible to increase RCA output Voltage to 3V? Touching the limit with my Bakoon 13r, when using EQ with my HE6
 
Apr 29, 2022 at 5:48 PM Post #3,223 of 3,330

alphaman

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Hi y'all. I was banned from this thread for a few dayz -- a move from the da Modz I totally support and agree with. Thank you for all the get-well cards and emotional "miss-ya" Tweets :wink:
From the BOTTOM o' me bum, ... well what can I say ... but ...well .... here is the Ares II, gatherin' dust, on the BOTTOM:
IMG-0401.jpg
 
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Apr 29, 2022 at 8:17 PM Post #3,224 of 3,330

alphaman

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There were some mod-deleted posts of mine -- a few days ago -- that I think were ACCIDENTALLY deleted because the noise-reduction the moderators used was Dolby B ... (when it should've been Dolby C). The 'fessive posts ... I totally agree ... deserved to be excommunicated ... because they were ... ummm..... 'ffensive.

But not these two (y'all are welcome for the re-education)...
Unsure about Denafrips Ares 2 and the NOS issue (BTW: I do own that DAC, a mid-2020 purchase). It is possible that Ares 2's pre-conversion section components -- unrelated to the oversampling DSP -- are doing some signal processing of their own. E.g., the USB chip, the input decoder, the SRC, etc.

That said, JA did find the Ares 2/Terminator impulse-response graph characteristic of non-oversampling D/A conversion. GoldenSounds' claims and the graphs he provides in his write-up and video are ... ahem ... UNIQUE.
==
I'm unsure about the early (first/second gen. CD player) Sony DACs' internal architecture -- but the early Japanese CDPs had no oversampling.

That said, ... R2R dacs used for digital audio playback (made by Analog Devices, Burr-Brown, et. al.) FIRST came into application well into the age of dedicated-IC oversampling. One could even speculate that Analog Devices, Burr-Brown, et. al. INTENDED their DAC ICs to be used with oversampling.

Some of the early enthusiasm about the "goodness" of NOS (which began with DIY projects like http://www.dddac.de/ back in the late 1990s) were centered on using classic Philips DACs (which are not R2R ,which are not R2R!!) -- simply bypassing the OEM digital filter IC (e.g. SAA7220).

Hence much of the mythos and DIY NOS culture is based on NOS DEM .... not NOS R2R. So why would NOS R2R -- Denafrips, Holo, etc -- have the "NOS" sound?

(BTW: as I noted in the head-fi Denafrips/BlackHole thread, i do have a sites.google.com site that captures EVERY forum HTML page and many screen-captures as well ... PM me for more details).
 
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Apr 29, 2022 at 9:28 PM Post #3,225 of 3,330

Chesty

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