[adrianm]

Who is considering the new Apex upgrade for their Bartok? Has anyone been able to demo an upgraded / new Apex unit?

It's not available for the Bartok, just Rossini and Vivaldi.

 

[ufospls2]

Who is considering the new Apex upgrade for their Bartok? Has anyone been able to demo an upgraded / new Apex unit?

Is this a possibility now?

previously dCS said the below

"
Will APEX be offered on the Bartók?

At present, we have no plans to offer APEX with the Bartók Streaming DAC or the Bartók Headphone DAC. The Ring DAC APEX is not compatible with the BHD, and the BSD remains current. We are always exploring how we can continue enhancing our systems, and Bartók customers will be notified whenever we have updates or new features to share."

 

[adrianm]

is this a possibility now?

I doubt it, Bartok just got 2.0, Lina doesn't even have it yet. Not to mention it makes no sense from a cost perspective.

 

[Andrewteee]

There is rumor on the dCS forum.

 

[adrianm]

There is rumor on the dCS forum.

Oh, just saw. Not sure how realistic it is, it would mean Lina would be getting 2.0 less then a year in.
Two tiered pricing doubling after a year is also complete bs. Even for the Rossini/Vivaldi owners that didn't happen afaik. Specifically asked dCS.
I'm sure Apex will get in the Bartok eventually, but i'd expect it to be at least another year considering Lina's launch. If that's not the case, things are probably going pretty bad for dCS. I'd also expect Rossini and Vivaldi to get 3.0 shortly. Which would be weird considering people are still waiting months to get their upgrade.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Just checked the dCS Board.
Seems to be Happening or 2 users are really good at making up stories.

Release should be february/march according to their dealers.

Upgrade cost 6k for units younger than 2 years and 12k for units older than that.

Seriously, I remember the time when 14k bought you a brand new bartok... somewhere something went terribly wrong

 

[adrianm]

Upgrade cost 6k for units younger than 2 years and 12k for units older than that.

They also claim it's the same upgrade as the Rossini, where there is no such differentiation. There were rumors of this for Apex from the beginning, checked with dCS, no such thing. I fail to see how they can justify it only for the Bartok.

Seriously, I remember the time when 14k bought you a brand new bartok.

It still can, it was like 9k when It came out

 

[notofthisworld]

I recieved a call from my Dealer. Was sent a doc from DCS regarding the upgrade. Starting as early as Feb this year. I wasn't sure if some new units already had the Apex upgrade.

 

[adrianm]

I recieved a call from my Dealer. Was sent a doc from DCS regarding the upgrade. Starting as early as Feb this year. I wasn't sure if some new units already had the Apex upgrade.

So what’s the cost?

 

[notofthisworld]

So what’s the cost?

I'm in Canada. $12k or $6k if unit was purchased within past 2 years. Email also states that DCS is "about to launch" the Apex upgrade for the Bartok. Booking appts for Feb and Mar 2023.

I've never heard the Apex on the higher end units. And i've only ever heard a Bartok. Therefore I have no frame of reference on how large the improvement may be and if it is worth the cost.

 

[adrianm]

I'm in Canada. $12k or $6k if unit was purchased within past 2 years. Email also states that DCS is "about to launch" the Apex upgrade for the Bartok. Booking appts for Feb and Mar 2023.

I've never heard the Apex on the higher end units. And i've only ever heard a Bartok. Therefore I have no frame of reference on how large the improvement may be and if it is worth the cost.

Well if the rumors are true that price is increasing to 10k Euros for the Rossini and Vivaldi and the Bartok gets the same upgrade for 4k euros (6k cad) I'll just send mine to Canada disguised as a baby Bartok .
FWIW clock made the biggest difference for me with both the Rossini and the Lina. While the Rossini is a definite upgrade over the Lina (which doesn't even have the Bartok's 2.0 mapper), I'd probably take Lina + clock over non clock Rossini if I had to choose. That's how much I think the clock matters.
What a difference Apex will make, not sure, but based on the above, 10k is a tough pill to swallow. I assume they will lock non Apex owners out from future firmware upgrades to get them to make the upgrade.

 

[chesebert]

External clock makes no sense from a technical perspective as the best clocking scheme is to have the clock generator as close to the functional block as possible. Either dCS doesn't know what they are doing designing accurate clock (unlikely) or they are just looking to sell an extra box to their users ($$$$). External clocks for domestic use (not studio/engineering use) are pretty much just hardware tone control - you could achieve the same effect by getting a good digital EQ. You buy whatever that sounds good to you, however.

[Edit] Do we know if the dCS external clock has been measured by anyone and if yes how does it compare with the internal clock on a full spectrum basis? How does dCS internal clock compare with those of its competitors like Emm Labs or Playback Designs, which do not use or sell external clocks.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Edit] Do we know if the dCS external clock has been measured by anyone and if yes how does it compare with the internal clock on a full spectrum basis? How does dCS internal clock compare with those of its competitors like Emm Labs or Playback Designs, which do not use or sell external clocks.

I'd love to see some data on that

 

[adrianm]

External clock makes no sense from a technical perspective as the best clocking scheme is to have the clock generator as close to the functional block as possible. Either dCS doesn't know what they are doing designing accurate clock (unlikely) or they are just looking to sell an extra box to their users ($$$$). External clocks for domestic use (not studio/engineering use) are pretty much just hardware tone control - you could achieve the same effect by getting a good digital EQ. You buy whatever that sounds good to you, however.

[Edit] Do we know if the dCS external clock has been measured by anyone and if yes how does it compare with the internal clock on a full spectrum basis? How does dCS internal clock compare with those of its competitors like Emm Labs or Playback Designs, which do not use or sell external clocks.

There are a lot of explanations for this on the dCS forum, but the idea is that implementation matters more than clock accuracy, and their implementation doesn't replace the internal clock, just provides a stable reference. Further proof of this is the dither function on the Rossini clock, which does help to my ears. Explanations for that as well.
Jitter performance is actually great without the clock, measurably better than Chord's claimed "jitter immunity", so It's not like the internal clocks are the problem (which I initially assumed). Why their implementation benefits from the clocks so much, I have no idea.
Don't think EQ can do the same thing, this isn't really an M-scaler type thing where it just sounds different. Prat is improved, clarity, as well as soundstage expanding significantly. It just sounds "muddier" without the clock. It's not about tone control from my perspective, as timbre and etc stay the same.
Who knows, people can just measure the output.

 

[ufospls2]

I think I remember reading an explanation that the way dCS does external clocking is somewhat different from other external clocks. I can't remember what the specifics were however, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in.