DC Area Head-Fi Minimeet Impressions 05/07/2016
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May 8, 2016 at 1:13 AM Post #2 of 68
Thanks to @sheldaze for finding a location and reserving a meeting room for a meet this weekend.  As always a pleasure to get together with the local crew to talk serious business about headphones.  I wouldn't mind doing this even more often if we can find a better spot.  Hopefully meeting spaces will be opening up in my neighborhoods community center soon and I can looking into getting that as a space for these meet ups in the future.  Also high hopes for Linear Tube Audio's new store front for Urban Hifi in Takoma Park.  Best of luck with that @willsw, hopefully we can use it as a meeting space soon!
 
Meet Photos:
 
http://imgur.com/a/80wil
 
Impressions
 
 
Ayre Codex
 
This was a very nice surprise for me.  I had missed a meet a little over a year ago where @yage had brought the Ayre Codex and was disappointed that I wasn't able to check it out.  This mystery DAC that @sheldaze referred to in the previous impressions thread finally got its big reveal here.  The Codex is quite a nice Sabre 9018 implementation in a small package, sounding very similar to the 9018 implementation in my own NFB-27H.  I though it was a very smooth and even somewhat warm 9018 implementation that really brought out some of the better qualities of the DAC.  It was unfortunate that the amp section of the Codex wasn't similarly well executed.  Bass seemed a bit overly emphasized and quite woolly, highs a bit tizzy and mids certainly sounded like they had a dip somewhere.  When connected to a better amplifier though, the Codex absolutely excels.  It's really unfortunate because this could have been an excellent all in one desktop solution if only the amp did the DAC justice.  The DAC really brought quite a bit of detail out of the sabre without any of the glare or glassiness of poorer implementations.  Soundstage, imaging, separation and detail all were quite good out of this unit, hearing it out of the Meridian Prime.
 
Meridian Prime
 
This was another recent purchase from @sheldaze that I was quite curious about.  The Meridian Prime is a solid state amp with a separate, outboard linear power supply.  To my ears, this amp was essentially uncolored without any character of its own.  While it didn't pack quite the punch of my 27H, it seemed smooth, detailed and resolving with no apparently grit or glare.  When testing it with my HE-500, I did find it struggled a bit to control them in the bass region, distorting it noticeably, which gave the bass a somewhat warmer and fuzzier presentation than I am used to out of the headphone.  I think this may correlate to what @sheldaze heard with the HE-1000 on the unit.  It seemed to drive loads like the Sennheiser HD650 and HD800 with ease though.  Overall, I was pleasantly surprised by this amp, especially fed by the Codex.  I didn't get a chance to try the internal DAC but was told it was a bit warmed up and colored.
 
Stax SR-Lambda
 
This was a pleasant surprised from @willsw and hooked up to his MicroZOTL via his SRD-7 energizer.  The MicroZOTL was being fed by the Audio-GD DAC19 and Metrum Musette, both R2R NOS DACs.  This was quite different from other Stax I've heard, having a bit more body and weight to its sound.  Thinking about it, and thinking about how the MicroZOTL creates a warmer, slightly emphasized bass region out of headphones hooked up to it, I wonder if that had something to do with the somewhat thicker sound of this Stax.  I didn't get much time with it, but it had all the clarity and detail that Stax are known for, a very nice balance in the mids and treble, though maybe a bit bass light, but enough to provide a weighty foundation for music.
 
MrSpeakers Alpha Dog
 
Got to hear @TimeLord's pair again after hearing it at the April meetup, this time without all the extra felt dots and liked the Alpha Dog quite a bit better.  I think it maintained a pretty good balance and the two dots that were installed by default were enough to tame a lot of the 10k peak on the headphone.  Overall a warm tilted headphone that lacked a little bit of impact in the subbass for my liking.  I also think it had a somewhat dry presentation which I enjoyed.
 
Shure SE846
 
I only tried the Shure SE846 briefly so I didn't get the best impression of it, I also unfortunately had some issues getting a good seal with the foam tips that @TimeLord brought for the meet, but my ears are quite difficult to pair with IEMs in the first place, part of the reason I don't care for them very much.  I thought the SE846 was a bit forward in the mids and could have actually used a bit more bass as well, though I think I can chalk that up to seal issues.  Nothing offensive here, I thought the sound was a bit smoothed over, not the authority in detail for the music, but a really nice, laid back listen that I could see being really great for traveling or relaxing.
 
Fostex TH-X00
 
Trying these headphones for the third time, this is the first time they really clicked for me.  It appears these headphones are quite demanding of a good pairing with an amplifier.  Listening to these out of the NFB-27H I thought these headphones came alive.  While I still would prefer a little bit more midrange than the TH-X00 presents, I think the balance overall is quite good, detail retrieval also seems good on this headphone.  Treble is pretty even sounding overall, and bass is prominent and pretty clean sounding.  I still hear some of the issues with transitions between the bass, mids and treble, as well as some distortion from the lower midrange down, but nothing that takes away from how fun and engaging the headphone can be especially with bassier music.
 
Hifiman HE-400S w/ Fuzzor, Grill Mod, and FocusPads
 
Thanks to @h2rulz for bringing these, good luck swapping the grills for something a little thicker and more sturdy!  I thought with the mods that it was a much more open sounding headphone.  I can certainly see the comparisons to the HD600 and HD650 from a tonality perspective.  I thought this was a very warm sounding headphone, with somewhat hazy and woolly lower mids and bass.  Treble was well behaved and there were no standout issues there.  With a little more clarity to their sound, I think these would be much more competitive headphones, and though the mods seem to help a little bit with the tonality, adding bass and air, they don't seem to do much for the clarity of the headphone.
 
I think that concludes my impressions for what I tried at the meet this time around.  Thanks again to @sheldaze for organizing and for everyone that showed up to share their gear with us.
 
May 8, 2016 at 8:15 AM Post #3 of 68
As I mentioned in the previous thread, I truly enjoyed the insights of my fellow Head-Fi members:
 
  1. Thanks to @gandhisfist for taking the time to listen to the Ayre Codex. It is certainly changing my perspective on what a small, transportable DAC can and should do. Also confirming what I heard from the headphone output, certainly a warming effect, which I heard prior to the meet on my HE-1000 headphones.
  2. A similar surprise, I appreciate the comments on the bass portion of the Meridian Prime. This was about the only thing that stood out, and perhaps similar to the difference between the HD800S and HD800 (essentially a slight distortion causing perception of improved bass) is what I heard when using my HE-1000. I had certainly not heard such quantities of bass on other amplifiers. I'll give this a good warming up before the next meet, which I had time to do with the Ayre Codex and Audeze Deckard, but was not able to do with the Prime (my laptop can only feed so many systems at at the same time).
 
An aside, one annoyance and the reason I asked Bill to run the Deckard from his Mac - I've not figured out how to run either the Meridian or Audeze products from something I would consider portable - a tablet or a phone. If I could figure this magic trick, I'll definitely be more inclined to bring these to future meets and let you all hear the Meridian through its internal DAC.
 
  1. Loved hearing the high frequency clarity of the Stax - exactly how old are these?! While I was able to focus on the treble, something odd was happening for me in the mid to lower frequencies. When I say odd, I don't mean odd, bad. I mean musical and entertaining, but just not quite certain what. I am planning to bring this setup to the Atlanta meet, though I will be using HD800S and HE-1000 headphones with a couple of Norne headphone cables, which I hope to have in time for the meet. But I've heard the headphones, and personally own the amplifier. My focus, I think, was more on the DAC. I does something dramatically different, to my ears, in the mid to low frequency range. I definitely suggest the local DC Head-Fi members give the Metrum Musette a listen, if you've not been able to listen at previous meets. I'm simply not going to be able to adequately describe it here until I give it a longer listen.
  2. Onto the Deckard, I was thankful @Billheiser had the chance to plug this into his Mac and headphones. This was originally my intended amplifier to solve the multiple headphone with one amplifier issue of handling low impedance high current (planar) and low impedance low current (dynamic) headphones. I heard it myself from his music selection - some Frank Sinatra, I believe was on the playlist at the time. Wow - the TH-X00 are an entertaining headphone, that still has plenty of musical detail too! Each time I put these headphones on my head, I forget that bass can be plentiful, fun, and non-bloated. But the treble and other sounds are there as well. Only we both agreed with what I initially heard listening at home - there is just a little something "extra" when played through the Audeze Deckard and its internal DAC. I still prefer to listen to it through the internal USB DAC, versus listening to the amplifier alone. The combined amplifier and DAC present a more cohesive sound than feeding through the amplifier alone, where I felt (at home) that something of the external DAC character was lost. Perhaps the Audeze DAC is excessively bright, and the amplifier tames it down just a hair. Whatever it is doing, the combination amplifier and DAC are good, but just provide a little something extra in the treble region. Such as when a guitar is plucked, there is just a little something extra that goes along with it - a slight more emphasis on the sound of touching the string. It seems to come in a little sooner, and decay a little later. It works quite well on bringing the TH-X00 alive, but I could see how it might prove grating on the wrong headphone. At home, I found it worked well with the Audeze EL-8C, but only on music that was recorded absolutely perfectly. On my personal music collection, it did not work for me.
  3. One of my primary focus points was the Woo Audio WA7. First, I was glad @TimeLord was able to hear for himself the original solid state linear tube power supply. At the meet prior, I sat and listened to his WA7 and WA7tp (tube power supply). I did not need to listen long because I immediately enjoyed what I heard, and felt confident about the amplifier heading to me. But then I heard my own WA7 and solid state power supply - ouch! Worse than just having the treble-emphasizing solid state power supply, I also used the more detailed upgraded tubes in the amplifier portion. I immediately bought the WA7tp and some "upgraded" tube options, but something still wasn't quite write. The mystery was solved at the meet. The tubes in his WA7tp are not the ones being sold today with the WA7tp. He had Electro-Harmonix, while the ones being sold today are RCA. Listening to my RCA tubes in his setup with HD800, I thought to myself, how long can I keep these headphones on before I get too tired to listen. Switching over to his Electro-Harmonix, the treble issues immediately departed. Now my RCA are not burned in, but this was no question the missing piece of the puzzle for me. Once hearing the tube power supply with the Electro-Harmonix tubes, the basis for the sound signature was well established. Everything else was simply gravy. And replacing the original tubes in the amplifier portion with the upgraded tubes, also from Electro-Harmonix, just made sense.
 
My replacement Electro-Harmonix tubes for the WA7tp are on order. So I'll be posting back impressions of this setup, in this thread later. By the point in the meet when we had this setup, my ears were just a little tired. It sounded good, but I wasn't listening as closely. So I'll definitely be giving this a thorough listening at home on my setup.
 
  1. Last, but definitely not least - what can I say about the Audio-GD NFB-27H? I suppose I could quickly summarize by stating it is a Sabre and it is a solid state, which if you believe what you read on Head-Fi should be bad. However it sounds divine with HD800. And that kind of wizardry takes a lot of effort to execute. It has absolutely zero glare, but all the digital information is there in spades. Its solid state amplifier portion must be special to be able to execute the HD800 in a musical and meaningful way. I will, at the next meet, need to get a couple more headphones to try on this.
 
If people are looking for an end game, just get this - you're done. I would like to know, how @gandhisfist plans to bring this on the road, and especially the solid chunk of metal remote through airport security 
tongue.gif
 
 
May 8, 2016 at 8:42 AM Post #4 of 68
Sorry I couldn't make it. While my elbows are moving better today than at any time since March 26, I still would have a hard time raising the headphones onto my head and only if they're 3 lbs. or less!

@Sheldaze: Ayre Codex vs. GMB? I know it has nothing on Yiggy :wink:

I think I've mentioned that my wife is the bassist in a local DC band called Ménage À Garage. If you're so inclined, would you mind casting your vote here? Takes about five seconds:

http://washington.thedelimagazine.com/poll/poll.php?category=13

Thanks! Happy Mother's Day!
 
May 8, 2016 at 8:57 AM Post #5 of 68
Sorry I couldn't make it. While my elbows are moving better today than at any time since March 26, I still would have a hard time raising the headphones onto my head and only if they're 3 lbs. or less!

@Sheldaze: Ayre Codex vs. GMB? I know it has nothing on Yiggy
wink.gif


I think I've mentioned that my wife is the bassist in a local DC band called Ménage À Garage. If you're so inclined, would you mind casting your vote here? Takes about five seconds:

http://washington.thedelimagazine.com/poll/poll.php?category=13

Thanks! Happy Mother's Day!

Will do the vote!
 
I prefer the GMB, but that is more for the signature - the voicing. As far as details, the Codex definitely competes more at the level of Yggdrasil. So that's the comparison you're talking about. And that's probably what I'll do - plug the Codex into my stereo speaker system, and let it burn in for a few weeks (literally unplug the Toslink from the Yggdrasil and plug into Codex instead). Then I'll think about comparing the two after I am sure the Codex is fully burned in. I bought it used, so do not know how many of the recommended 300 hours it has already been through.
 
May 8, 2016 at 9:19 AM Post #6 of 68
Will do the vote!

I prefer the GMB, but that is more for the signature - the voicing. As far as details, the Codex definitely competes more at the level of Yggdrasil. So that's the comparison you're talking about. And that's probably what I'll do - plug the Codex into my stereo speaker system, and let it burn in for a few weeks (literally unplug the Toslink from the Yggdrasil and plug into Codex instead). Then I'll think about comparing the two after I am sure the Codex is fully burned in. I bought it used, so do not know how many of the recommended 300 hours it has already been through.


Wel you know it's not just about details but overall presentation. How does the Codex compare to Schiit house sound? Looking forward to more comparisons.
 
May 8, 2016 at 9:39 AM Post #7 of 68
 
An aside, one annoyance and the reason I asked Bill to run the Deckard from his Mac - I've not figured out how to run either the Meridian or Audeze products from something I would consider portable - a tablet or a phone. If I could figure this magic trick, I'll definitely be more inclined to bring these to future meets and let you all hear the Meridian through its internal DAC.
 

 
Those Stax were released in '79. 
 
The solution I found that allowed me to connect tablets (I haven't tried a phone, but one tablet was Android-based) and a Chromebook to DACs that were otherwise not working was by using a USB to Coaxial converter. I used a cheap one that was limited to 16 bit, just to see if it worked, so I don't know if higher quality ones require drivers that would give similar problems to the DACs themselves. Last I checked, someone is selling an Ifi converter in the classifieds right now for a good price. 
 
May 8, 2016 at 10:59 AM Post #8 of 68
Wel you know it's not just about details but overall presentation. How does the Codex compare to Schiit house sound? Looking forward to more comparisons.


Based on the schiit I have heard, which includes the bifrost uber, bifrost multibit and the yggdrasil, i would say that other than the yggdrasil, the schiit house sound has a touch of warmth to the dacs. As you go up the product line, the warmth is reduced, with no real warmth in the ygg. Another thing I have noticed with the schiit dacs is a sort of delay, especially in the multibit units, that exaggerates the sense of depth of a song, definitely a very pleasing effect that helps to separate and position instruments in space very well, and gives them some of their awesome imaging capabilities.

The ayre on the other hand i think is very true to the source material, with possibly a touch of added warmth, very slight. I thought overall though a very smooth, resolving and detailed dac that didnt enhance or take away anything from the source material, just presented it as is.
 
May 8, 2016 at 11:46 AM Post #9 of 68
I did take a short (few hours) listen this morning. I do like the Ayre Codex better than the Oppo BDP-105, which is also a Sabre DAC. The Oppo seems to have a little more glare, a little less of that transparency. Then onto the Yggdrasil - it's still the one. There's a particular song I've been using lately, which makes it easy for me to tell when Yggy went from cold to warm:
 

 
The first time I heard her voice on Yggdrasil, I was startled by the depth of expression in her voice. It was to me as startling as hearing one of my favorite Anime films, Akira, in the original Japanese versus the English. The expressiveness and meaning heard in the original voices is unparalleled by the English version, which was the only I had known. Yes, the Codex is clear. But at this time, the expressiveness is almost completely missing.
 
@willsw I will give my Chromebook a try on those DACs, which are USB-only for input. I have a fairly simple setup for iPhone, where I feed the Apple lightning power source into a splitter. Out of the splitter comes USB to feed the DAC and another lightning connector to source from the iPhone. The great thing is the iPhone is also getting a charge while being used as a source. But I've had limited success with this. It works from time to time on Schiit DACs, but is extremely temperamental. It worked on USB DAC/AMP from Apogee and Centrance. It did not work on the USB DAC/AMP from Meridian - same poor luck with the Audeze.
 
Anything that has a Toslink or COAX input, I've been very happy using my Pure i-20, which feeds from an old iDevice (30-pin) and outputs Toslink, COAX, and using its internal DAC can also output 2-channel over RCA. It has some other features I've not used, such as video output. I've been using it exclusively at meets, and will do the same at Atlanta. It would just be nice to have something, like an Apple computer, but just to be used for music playback. I'll give my Chromebook a trial with the various DACs that aren't working.
 
May 8, 2016 at 6:25 PM Post #10 of 68
[*] One of my primary focus points was the Woo Audio WA7. First, I was glad @TimeLord
 was able to hear for himself the original solid state linear tube power supply. At the meet prior, I sat and listened to his WA7 and WA7tp (tube power supply). I did not need to listen long because I immediately enjoyed what I heard, and felt confident about the amplifier heading to me. But then I heard my own WA7 and solid state power supply - ouch! Worse than just having the treble-emphasizing solid state power supply, I also used the more detailed upgraded tubes in the amplifier portion. I immediately bought the WA7tp and some "upgraded" tube options, but something still wasn't quite write. The mystery was solved at the meet. The tubes in his WA7tp are not the ones being sold today with the WA7tp. He had Electro-Harmonix, while the ones being sold today are RCA. Listening to my RCA tubes in his setup with HD800, I thought to myself, how long can I keep these headphones on before I get too tired to listen. Switching over to his Electro-Harmonix, the treble issues immediately departed. Now my RCA are not burned in, but this was no question the missing piece of the puzzle for me. Once hearing the tube power supply with the Electro-Harmonix tubes, the basis for the sound signature was well established. Everything else was simply gravy. And replacing the original tubes in the amplifier portion with the upgraded tubes, also from Electro-Harmonix, just made sense.
[/LIST]

My replacement Electro-Harmonix tubes for the WA7tp are on order. So I'll be posting back impressions of this setup, in this thread later. By the point in the meet when we had this setup, my ears were just a little tired. It sounded good, but I wasn't listening as closely. So I'll definitely be giving this a thorough listening at home on my setup.


Sorry sheldaze. I get to these meets and I'm like a kid in a candy store. I keep chasing the shiny object. We should have gotten through all of the iterations on the WA7. Still, I think we found the sweet spot for this amp. That is until the upgrades start...

gandhisfist I checked out Audio-gd's site and the DAC in the NFB-27H is available as a standalone unit. The problem is it's only $150 cheaper to get just the DAC instead of the amp/DAC combo. I'm not sure I understand that pricing model. Is there only $150 worth of value in the amp section???
Decisions decisions.
 
May 8, 2016 at 6:35 PM Post #11 of 68
Not quite sure what the difference is between the standalone and combo units, but the all in ones are quite a good value. The separates are supposed to be another step up in quality, but I don't really know understand how much further up there is to go.
 
May 8, 2016 at 6:47 PM Post #12 of 68
Reading the descriptions, the NFB-27H is a combination of their top DAC and the Master 9 amp. That's what confused me. That makes the NFB-27H a crazy good bargain comparatively speaking.
 
May 8, 2016 at 8:50 PM Post #13 of 68
Yep, really a killer unit.  I won't call it my endgame, because i'm sure there's something better out there, but this really does suit my preferences and doesn't do anything wrong, so I'm not actively searching for anything new.  I'm actually also pretty content with my headphone situation.  I only just about everything I'm interested in, the only things I don't own, i'm hoping to re-evaluate on this amp to see if it does anything special for them.
 
May 8, 2016 at 9:25 PM Post #14 of 68
Sheldaze, when the touring Moon Neo 230 HAD comes your way, I'd like to hear your comparison between it and the Deckard if possible.
Funny that the Deckard has only one digital input.
 
May 8, 2016 at 9:35 PM Post #15 of 68
Yep, really a killer unit.  I won't call it my endgame, because i'm sure there's something better out there, but this really does suit my preferences and doesn't do anything wrong, so I'm not actively searching for anything new.  I'm actually also pretty content with my headphone situation.  I only just about everything I'm interested in, the only things I don't own, i'm hoping to re-evaluate on this amp to see if it does anything special for them.

This is amazing. I think we are witnessing the birth of a new species: The content head-fier. Congratulations to you; I hope to join you soon.
 
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