[oicdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Computerpro3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...are passionate about something (I don't even care what, but please have SOME kind of interests)...

And oddly enough, out of all the qualities of being smart, attractive, funny or self sufficient, that quality is the hardest to find in ANY woman, IMO.

Yes, there are women who have interests and hobbies, but nothing they are PASSIONATE about.

Example, I've never met a girl who can relate to how I am about certain things. Yes you can always say "well me liking headphones is like how you like bead jewelry". No, it's not the same. I'm not talking about just a hobby or something, I'm talking about a passionate interest where they can relate to what you have, whether it be cars, headphones, or whatever. Ya know, like being apart of something BIGGER than you.

I've never found a woman who was able to relate to the sort of passion I put into some of my (many) hobbies.

 

[Omega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think Chris Rock sums it up perfectly. *warning, profanity ahead. YouTube - Chris Rock- View on Love and Relationships The 4:00 mark pretty much sums up my life with my wife. -Ed

Hilarious! Saw it the other night, cracked me up. Watched it again now, I'm laughing again. Hehe, thanks for that Ed...

 

[ericj]

Well, there's a certain amount of irony in the way that this is mostly a bunch of obsessive male geeks arguing about this . . . but I'll leave that alone.

I come from a big family. I have three sisters and four brothers. I have 4 nieces and 5 nephews.

I'm the only male member of my family who hasn't yet either gotten married or fathered a child. My younger sister is in the same boat, on the other side, and about 6 years behind me.

My problem? I meet someone I'm interested in getting to know on more than a physical level about once a year, and typically they're not the tinyest bit interested in me.

Most of the time, even if i find them attractive and we have some sort of shared interest, they're just unpleasant to be around.

I mentioned that to my younger sister and she agreed - she's grown to loathe her female aquaintences because they're unpleasant, grouchy, selfish, and irrational.

As for her side of the problem? My observation is that there is no real shortage of men who are interested in her, but for some reason she expects all of them to be over-the-top romantic and sweep her off her feet. And she keeps forgetting that every guy who's done that has turned out to be the kind of jerk who expects something in return for it.

 

[loveheadphones]

I found this portion of the "child-man" article particularly revealing:

"Single women in their twenties and early thirties are joining an international New Girl Order, hyperachieving in both school and an increasingly female-friendly workplace, while packing leisure hours with shopping, traveling, and dining with friends [see “The New Girl Order,” Autumn 2007]. Single Young Males, or SYMs, by contrast, often seem to hang out in a playground of drinking, hooking up, playing Halo 3, and, in many cases, underachieving. With them, adulthood looks as though it’s receding."

First of all it takes a man and a women (usually) to "hook up," so let's remove that from the "child-man" side.
Apparantly, shopping is an extraordinarily value-added activity, as is traveling and dining. Aren't these women hyperachievers!
I can't wait to marry a woman with credit debt up to her eyeballs.

Here's another good quote, that speaks directly to the author's apparant inability to fathom how the economic system has changed in the U.S.:

"Not so long ago, the average mid-twentysomething had achieved most of adulthood’s milestones—high school degree, financial independence, marriage, and children. These days, he lingers—happily—in a new hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance."

for the sake of argument, we will choose age 25 as mid-twentysomething.
1. Ah, for that bygone era where a high school degree was enough.
2. Financial independence - let's see here, with a college degree we have 4 years lost earnings, possible student loans, and 3 years left (graduate at age 22) to establish independence. Not very likely...
3. Marriage - hey, some people still do get married before 25. Nothing wrong with that. It does make things much harder if you work for a global company or want to pursue further education, and it limits your career flexibility.
4. Children - considering point 2, good luck with that.

On the financial independence piece, here's an anecdote. When I graduated from college at age 22 I was making less than $60k a year. Houses in my area sold for $500k minimum. Try swinging a downpayment on that by age 25. With a wife and a kid.

Anyway, both of these articles were pretty pathetic and insulting, but I felt the first one was the worst offender. For the record I'm 25 years old, probably fall into the "nice guy" category, and not married.

one other real quick thing, that probably hasn't been mentioned - single men (and single women) w/o kids probably pay the most in taxes, because they are not eligible for the many tax advantages the U.S. government gives to those with kids, mortgages, etc. I know everytime I've done my taxes using taxcut software I'm substantially above the average for tax liability at my AGI. We're the only ones keeping the government afloat!! =)

 

[Omega]

Nice guys don't finish last. Guys who aren't assertive enough to put themselves out there at the appropriate time, in an admirable way...they usually end up frustrated.

Don't make excuses. The distribution of women in the world is approximately equal to the distribution of men, for nearly any metric you can imagine. If a man exists who likes/does/is something, you can find a woman who values it too. When the distribution is skewed, it is still not significant enough to preclude you from finding a great mate. There are 30 year old women who make lightsabers and attend Star Wars conventions. There are 18 year olds who knit, 50 year olds who skydive.

Of coure oicdn is right, there is no perfect mate, because there is no perfect person (is there a perfect ANYTHING?). You want a pediatrician with Gisele Bundchen's body and the soul of Monty Python? Great. You have two challenges. 1) There are 6.6 billion people on the planet (~3.35 billion women). That's a big search space for something that specific. Get crackin'! 2) If/when you locate her, it will probably be a challenge to overcome yourself, and be able to earnestly present the kind of mate SHE is looking for, then successfullly woo her.

Let's put it in head-fi terms again. I'd like a complete HE60 system, mint condition. I'm a really nice guy, and I'm looking for someone to hook me up with my dreams. I'll make the HE60's so happy! Willing to pay $800. Who's laughing?

When I was transferred to a new school in 2nd grade, I asked my father how to make friends, because I had none. He said, it's easy and it is hard. The easy part is, just be a good friend yourself. The hard part is doing that when it seems there are no friends around. Pretty good advice. Applicable here, surely. Later, when I was a freshman in high school, I asked him why all the girls were so blind they couldn't see other freshmen guys were great, versus the juniors/seniors. He laughed. I mean, he really laughed a lot, like I laughed at the Chris Rock skit. Then he said, "Look. catching a great girl is like catching a great job. You get your credentials in line, try anything you can to set up a meeting, put on a clean shirt, and then be yourself."

It seems a lot of people are missing another important point--finding a mate isn't a one-time, ultimate search to end. It's a growth process. Find someone who will be fun to grow with, who suits you (and vice versa) and ride along together. It is naive to think anyone who is born, goes to school, learns to drive, deals with mortality, learns to love, gets married, or has children...was really ready when it hit them. Jump in, have fun.

 

[KarateKid]

Lol yeah, women are being spoiled these days. Education is taking a step back, too many girls have no desire to be anything other than just looking. Whomever that said girls have nothing to talk about half the time, it's true, there's nothing beneth the surface sometimes (not always of course im just generalizing).

If anything women are at least portrayed by media to being spoiled AND okay with it. Like in that stupid calsbury chocolate ad with one woman lying to her friend about a dress that's on sale so she can buy it herself. I supposed that was deemed as a clever move. But if this is how mature grown up women are supposed to act and treat others than I'd be disappointed. Yeah I know it's a stupid TV ad but there's got to be some truth to it, I mean there are women out there who probably endorse such attitude and behavior and that my friends, is disgusting, I wouldn't want to date somebody like that.

I would say lack of education, being driven by the standards being thrown out by pop culture, the desire to look fashionable, pretty, and dolled up, the typical american spoilness has really destroyed a lot potentially good women and made them into brainless dead beats. Nobody cares about what's on the inside anymore, instead of improving themselves intellectually the focus is now what's on the outside.

To sum it up, it's basically also just as hard for a guy to find the right girl once he gets pass how pretty or initially attractive she may be.

 

[Arainach]

KarateKid: How do you explain the fact that at every level of education, more women than men are getting degrees?

And, please, can we cut it with the 'Nice Guy' crap? Nice Guys expect that since they put forth a bit of effort to be polite every woman in the world should open their pants for them. Perhaps the women just plain and simple don't find them attractive, period. Oh well. Live with it and move on. But holding a grudge and saying that it's the women's fault is BS, pure and simple. Womens attraction to you is based on their opinions. It's not based off of how worthy you perceive you are.

 

[KarateKid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arainach /img/forum/go_quote.gif KarateKid: How do you explain the fact that at every level of education, more women than men are getting degrees? And, please, can we cut it with the 'Nice Guy' crap? Nice Guys expect that since they put forth a bit of effort to be polite every woman in the world should open their pants for them. Perhaps the women just plain and simple don't find them attractive, period. Oh well. Live with it and move on. But holding a grudge and saying that it's the women's fault is BS, pure and simple. Womens attraction to you is based on their opinions. It's not based off of how worthy you perceive you are.

Yeah you're right, maybe it has nothing to do with education, maybe more to do with attitude and morals. I know well educated women who act dumb stupid and of course the reverse can also be truth.

 

[oicdn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arainach /img/forum/go_quote.gif KarateKid: How do you explain the fact that at every level of education, more women than men are getting degrees? And, please, can we cut it with the 'Nice Guy' crap? Nice Guys expect that since they put forth a bit of effort to be polite every woman in the world should open their pants for them. Perhaps the women just plain and simple don't find them attractive, period. Oh well. Live with it and move on. But holding a grudge and saying that it's the women's fault is BS, pure and simple. Womens attraction to you is based on their opinions. It's not based off of how worthy you perceive you are.

Now isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? Not you personally, but that statement generally speaking can be flipped for the opposite sex...mosreso than most statements.

Heh, I was told by a friend who is the male equivalent of, I dunno...a person...

He told me "Women wouldn't be so bitter about a man just hittin and quittin if they just gave it up instead of being uptight about it. After all, the whole reason guys are considered "hot ****" when they sleep around is because women make it such a challenge. If it weren't such a challenge, it wouldn't be a big deal...but typical women, they have to make things difficult...then bitch about it later..."

It makes sense...cause the women that DON'T make it a big deal are considered whores. But they're just doing what guys do...women made the double standard themselves...so in a way, it is womens fault. lol.

Last guys do finish last. It's not assertiveness, it's not speaking up or whatever. Women just don't care for nice guys till they find out later in life, being single and alone, they effed up by letting all those nice guys slip by by being a bitch or just "being friends".....

A girl I dated in high school married the biggest ******** I know. She's a hottie. Does she do anything? No, she lives in a $500K house, and has no job or anything past a high school education. She had my GF come to her house privately to do her hair cause she can't afford to goto the salon, because her husband won't give her the money. Proof, you can be a hot chick, do nothing with your life, and bag pretty much whoever you want and live the lifestyle you choose. Everybody tells her her husband is a dick, but she CHOOSES to stay with him and says he's not a jerk. No, he's a jerk, but girls just like men who are ********, plain and simple.

Women will ALWAYS be the ones with the power, cause they have that hole between their legs. Frankly look, even an ugly, fat girl with a 5 oclock shadow can get sex...a fat guy of the same caliber can't just go and grab any chick...but the girl, most likely can, without the aid of alcohol in most instances, lol.

 

[usc goose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...but girls just like men who are ********, plain and simple.

yeah, sort of. but that's part of playing the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Women will ALWAYS be the ones with the power, cause they have that hole between their legs. Frankly look, even an ugly, fat girl with a 5 oclock shadow can get sex...a fat guy of the same caliber can't just go and grab any chick...but the girl, most likely can, without the aid of alcohol in most instances, lol.

hmm.... bitter much?

 

[Arainach]

Quote:

It makes sense...cause the women that DON'T make it a big deal are considered whores. But they're just doing what guys do...women made the double standard themselves...so in a way, it is womens fault. lol.

.....what?

Talk about blaming the victim. Women were not the ones who created this double standard; it's existed since long before they had any power or rights whatsoever. Quote:

hmm.... bitter much?

Exactly. oicdn, you fit the "nice guy" stereotype perfectly - bitter because of what you perceive as an injustice in that you consider yourself superior to other people and are pissed that women don't universally bend over for you because of it.

 

[porschemad911]

I'd have to agree with the article about guys' maturity. I just shake my head when I think about most of the guys I meet.

Of course, I also shake my head when I think about most of the girls I meet. I think it's a 'society in general' thing.

I'm with Computerpro3. I am not very picky, in terms of appearance or interests or whatever, but I don't know many people at all who have what I am after.

All I want is someone who loves the Lord, with a gentle and humble spirit, who is wise and responsible and caring and who searches for truth. Someone who is willing to give me the hard truth out of love when I am wrong, and accept the same about themselves.

Yah, people like this are very rare. Maybe one is waiting though ...

 

[nibiyabi]

^There's a paradox or two in that description. Makes it pretty hard.

 

[plainsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by porschemad911 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd have to agree with the article about guys' maturity. I just shake my head when I think about most of the guys I meet. Of course, I also shake my head when I think about most of the girls I meet. I think it's a 'society in general' thing. I'm with Computerpro3. I am not very picky, in terms of appearance or interests or whatever, but I don't know many people at all who have what I am after. All I want is someone who loves the Lord, with a gentle and humble spirit, who is wise and responsible and caring and who searches for truth. Someone who is willing to give me the hard truth out of love when I am wrong, and accept the same about themselves. Yah, people like this are very rare. Maybe one is waiting though ...

So if she's not religious, forget it.

See? It's all these stupid criteria that long-term single people use to make sure they keep themselves single. Why not just keep yourself out there, in situations where you meet more people, and just let the chemistry happen?

I think back on all the guys I've had the chance to have a part of my life. The ones that I remember are the ones who fell well outside the list of my own stupid criteria. These are men who enriched my life, and what a pity if I had rejected even the chance at those experiences because "He's too tall/short/fat/thin/hairy/musclar/stringy" or "conservative/liberal/religious/not religious."

Don't be so narrow, if you TRULY want to find someone. If you're not that interested in it, then be as narrow in your wants as you please.

My husband of nearly 10 years falls outside of my stupid criteria. And we've been happily married for 10 years. I wouldn't have him any other way. I'm sure I fall outside some of his stupid criteria, and yet, we are attracted to each other, we are each other's best friend.

And I don't think there's anything wrong in choosing the single life, but it's an easier choice to make if you knowingly make it.

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarateKid /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would say lack of education, being driven by the standards being thrown out by pop culture, the desire to look fashionable, pretty, and dolled up, the typical american spoilness has really destroyed a lot potentially good women and made them into brainless dead beats. Nobody cares about what's on the inside anymore, instead of improving themselves intellectually the focus is now what's on the outside.

Lack of education is bs of course and your post counts for both male and female. Females are being presented as hot sleezyziness and males are being presented as vain machos who only care about looks and are only surrounded by pretty girls. Guys spend more time in front of the mirror than girls. Believe me, I make passportphotos ugh...

I get so sick of men while walking on the streets trying to get your attention, want to talk to you, ask you out while they don't even know you. If I would have had a fat ass, an ugly face or whatever they would've laughed at me and wasn't even worth looking at. Luckily my hps keep me from hearing that bs a lot of times but it makes me feel that the only thing they care about are a tight ass and boobs. I don't like most men because of that.
Ow and sorry, but all of these threads here about girls with hps is only about looks as well. As long as it has boobs, is (partially) naked and tight ow and has hps on the pics keep coming and the guys keep drewling, it's disgusting and cheap.

And the women, well, they just look at me like I'm some sort of freak. If they could've killed me with their looks I would've been dead a thousand times. They talk superficial crap about guys, about who they think is the hottie of the week and ow that guy has such a tight ass omg.
Or they gossip their ass off yaakkk. The new wallets they've bought, the latest fashion, the newest make-up and that kind of nonsense. I don't like most women because of that.

But fortunately, there are still exceptions who are worth spending your time with and who care about real matters. Only sometimes they seem to be outnumbered by the rest.

And about the criteria thingy, we are being taught nowadays through for example media not to settle for less. It always has to be more, bigger, better and such.
Give up the stupid criteria and open up. You might get suprised one day. Noone is perfect, thank god for that. My bf is not perfect but that makes him perfect. It keeps things interesting.