[Nicwix]

This thread is intended to focus on the metal style generally known as Beauty & the Beast and answere the following:

1. What are the essential elements of the the style?

2. Are there identifiable Beauty & the Beast sub-gendres?

3. Which groups (and which CDs particularly) qualify for inclusion - can we come up with a comprehensive list?

4. Which CDs should be included in a B&B top 10, 20, 50 list?

5. Which CDs are good a good place to start?

6. Anything else?

A quick poll to start too ...

All contributions most welcome?

Nix

 

[Nicwix]

Oh, and to kick off, here is DarkAngel's B&B Top Ten (posted elsewhere):
1) Tristania - Beyond the Veil
2) Tristania - Widow's Weeds
3) Theatre of Tragedy - Aegis
4) Trail of Tears - Profundemonium
5) Darzamat - Flames of Black Art
6) Penumbra - Last Bewitchment
7) Theatre of Tragedy - Velvet Darkness They Fear
8) Lake of Sorrow - Sins of thy Beloved
9) Trail of Tears - Disclosure in Red
10) Tristania - World of Glass

Admitting to a slight inclination towards Tristania ... me too !!!

 

[minya]

[MODERATOR NOTE: Minya, please read the guidelines for the Music forum before thread-crapping.]

 

[Nicwix]

The Core. The following six groups almost always come up in any B&B list:
- Tristania
- Theatre of Tragedy
- Trail of Tears
- The Sins of Thy Beloved
- Within Temptation
- After Forever

All of these have the essential duets with growley male / clear female vocals that characterise B&B -

Also qualifying, but less commonly mentioned are Darzamat, Penumbra, Dismal Euphony and Sirenia. Other possiblities, but a with a different emphasis are:
- Therion
- The Gathering
- Lacuna Coil
- Nightwish
- Lacrimosa
- Blind Guardian
- Dark Tranquillity

Do these qualify as B&B?

Any other groups?

Come in Scott, DarkAngel, KR - anyone, is there anyone out there?

 

[KR...]

Here is a good website :

http://www.gothmetal.net

 

[lethoso]

i would not class therion as beauty and the beast, both male and female vocals are clean, also, as far as i know The gathering have no male vocals at all (other than their early stuff, which i have only heard the one album of). Lacuna coil is a bit of a stretch calling it beauty and the beast, the male vocals are not very beastly at all.

macbeth is another B&B band, and although they are not quite up there with the rest, they are still pretty damn good.

but yes, tristania > all.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Other possiblities, but a with a different emphasis are: - Therion - The Gathering - Lacuna Coil - Nightwish - Lacrimosa - Blind Guardian - Dark Tranquillity Do these qualify as B&B?

Hey Nic,
I don't consider any of the above groups B/B because the don't have the necessary dialog/interplay between pristine clean female vocals and dark sinister male death vocals in every song
necessary to be called beauty and beast style. Vocals should sound like opposite emotions in dialog:
good <--> evil
hope <--> sorrow
light <--> dark

For instance Lacuna has some male vocals but they are not sinister death vocals.........just clean male vocals. There are many dark metal groups now that have female vocals but few are B/B style.

BTW............you mentioned SIRENIA and DE, these are B/B but not my favorites. (Sirenia is 1st album by former Tristania member)

I don't really like to try to group music into catagories:
black metal
death metal
gothic metal/rock
doom
B/B
since no one is sure what they mean and there are hybirids and combinations of styles, this always causes silly arguments so I always use the term "dark metal" to cover all these catagories. For instance what style is OPETH.............best answer is dark metal

 

[KR...]

I only posted those pics since I liked those pics

B&B is a sub-genre Gothic Metal NOT a a sub-genre of Doom Metal, but for some reason people always get confuse about that one.

 

[KR...]

Quote:

I don't really like to try to group music into catagories: black metal death metal gothic metal/rock doom B/B since no one is sure what they mean and there are hybirids and combinations of styles, this always causes silly arguments so I always use the term "dark metal" to cover all these catagories. For instance what style is OPETH.............best answer is dark metal

Try this site, they make it pretty clear :

http://home.rstel.net/~pvlado/index_en.htm

Different types of Real Metal :

Ambient Metal
Black Metal
British Metal
Death Metal
Doom Metal
Folk Metal
Gothic Metal
Heavy Metal
Power Metal
Progressive Metal
Speed Metal
Trash Metal

There are many sub-genres to each type and many "crossover" bands that combine some of these styles. Opeth would be Progressive Death Metal. Graveworm would be Gothic Black Metal.

Pseudo (false) Metal styles :

Hair Metal = pop-oriented heavy metal and hard-rock bands of the late '80s

Nu-Metal = Also known as Rap Metal, Commercial Metal, and Mallcore.

Styles that sound like metal but are not :

Hardcore
Grindcore

These are actually sub-genres of Punk.

 

[mrkun]

Quote:

Originally posted by KR... Styles that sound like metal but are not : Hardcore Grindcore These are actually sub-genres of Punk. [/B]

What would you classify Metalcore as a sub-genre of?

 

[KR...]

Quote:

Originally posted by mrkun What would you classify Metalcore as a sub-genre of?

What the hell is Metalcore? You mean Nu-Metal?

 

[minya]

Quote:

Originally posted by KR... What the hell is Metalcore? You mean Nu-Metal?

Isis, Coalesce, Cave In, etc. Hardcore punk-ish stuff with the heavier guitars of metal. Or something.

Hydrahead seems to be a well-respected (and mostly metalcore) label.

- Chris

 

[Nicwix]

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkAngel Hey Nic, I don't consider any of the above groups [Therion, The Gathering, Lacuna Coil, Nightwish, Lacrimosa, Blind Guardian, Dark Tranquillity] B/B because the don't have the necessary dialog/interplay between pristine clean female vocals and dark sinister male death vocals in every song necessary to be called beauty and beast style. Vocals should sound like opposite emotions in dialog: good <--> evil hope <--> sorrow light <--> dark

DA, I agree with your criteria for B&B. Given this, is a complete list of all B&B groups:
1. Tristana
2. Theatre of Tragedy
3. Trail of Tears
4. The Sins of Thy Beloved
5. Within Temptation
6. After Forever
7. Darzamat
8. Penumbra
9. Dismal Euphony
10. Sirenia

Any other candidate groups ????????????????
If not, then B&B sub-gendre really boils down to just 40 odd albums (not all albums for the above groups qualify)!

Nic

 

[KR...]

Quote:

Originally posted by minya Isis, Coalesce, Cave In, etc. Hardcore punk-ish stuff with the heavier guitars of metal. Or something. Hydrahead seems to be a well-respected (and mostly metalcore) label. - Chris

Well, Core already tells you it's punk.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nicwix DA, I agree with your criteria for B&B. Given this, is a complete list of all B&B groups: 1. Tristana 2. Theatre of Tragedy 3. Trail of Tears 4. The Sins of Thy Beloved 5. Within Temptation 6. After Forever 7. Darzamat 8. Penumbra 9. Dismal Euphony 10. Sirenia Any other candidate groups ???????????????? If not, then B&B sub-gendre really boils down to just 40 odd albums (not all albums for the above groups qualify)! Nic

I didn't think Within Temptation and After Forever really qualify, and if they do, then Lacuna Coil definitely qualify. Listen to, for example, Senzafine, I think it captures exactly that contrast of which DA speaks. It's supposed to be about a man on death row.