[whitelabrat]

I've recently been bitten by the vinyl bug. I was given a Marantz 8B and I repaired a Rega P3 that was dirt cheap. Built a Marantz 7 clone, stepped attenuator, and a decent opamp phono stage.

My CD's sound harsh now. The SACD's and DVD-A's. No game. But keeping everything in working order is a real fuss! Their is something to be said about the convenience of digital media and the good quality that you can get for small bucks.

If you've got a dumpy turntable, worn out cartridge and records, wimpy phono stage, etc. Yeah vinyl isn't going compete with the ruggedness and consistence of digital.

I'm sure if I had a better digital source my opinion could be changed.

 

[Mr_Junesequa]

i agree with chadbang. Totally

Although a lot of the equiptment made in the 70's was awesome...for the time they were made...none of this handmade ( or partly machine made and then partly handmade in korea by some poor overworked guy who has been on shift for the last 12 hours and cant wait to get the last speaker set finished...) etc etc..thats been around today. I remmeber putting on my parents old sound system that had been sitting in storage for 20years just to see how crap it was and being just amazed.

 

[Luke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Chaos /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you have a well-recorded vinyl record, and if it's well pressed, with the hole in the middle, and if it's clean, that analog groove produces magical sound... if you have a good turntable and a good cartridge and a good pre-amp. If you have a well-recorded CD, and play it on a stable transport and have high-quality digital-to-analog conversion, you can also have magical sound. The two will be differently magical. I'm astounded at how good music sounds coming from a computer with a good DAC and good headphones. [size=medium]I think the weakness that people hear in most digital sound installations comes from the mediocre quailty of the digital-to-analog conversion.[/size]

BINGO. I agree.

I used to buy Japanese vinyls because the quality was sooooo much better than the **** that the Americans were coming out with. But even with those, you'd hear the occasional irritating ticks that vinyl is famous for. Cassettes -- I never liked them, because you can hear the tape noise as it runs over the head. I prefer digital. Regarding warmth, if I want warmth, I just flick the image processor switch on my Total AirHead.

Vinyl albums are good though. You can resell the Japanese ones on eBay and get good money for them. You can also make a cool music room by covering the ceiling with album covers.

 

[johnbon]

I didn't read any of this, nor do I want to because I'm sure I've seen it all before.

To put it bluntly: CD, no matter how good your system or the recording is, is unable to offer the depth of sound that can be produced from a needle reading directly into the grooves of a vinyl. Not only has it been scientifically proven (don't make me dig it up..), but you can hear it with your own ears. And if you can't, then you simply just don't care enough

Go buy a digital master (wav) copy of a track, and pick up the vinyl as well. Play them both and listen as you hear how the sounds from the digital copy seem to deteriorate and roll off whereas they seem just extend further and deeper than you can even hear with the vinyl.

Of course sadly the argument that vinyl is 'no question better, period.' is sadly fallible these days. There is far too many rushed or improper pressings in this day.



And a final note: it's not so much the turntable or when it was made, but rather the cartridge. Enough about this '70's/80's turntables blah blah'. With an amazing cartridge you can make even the most inferior of turntables sound excellent.

 

[Luke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Play them both and listen as you hear how the sounds from the digital copy seem to deteriorate and roll off [size=medium]whereas they seem just extend further and deeper than you can even hear with the vinyl[/size].

Repeat please, you are garbled.

 

[steviebee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbon /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't read any of this, nor do I want to because I'm sure I've seen it all before. And a final note: it's not so much the turntable or when it was made, but rather the cartridge. Enough about this '70's/80's turntables blah blah'. With an amazing cartridge you can make even the most inferior of turntables sound excellent.

Glad you're taking the time to give an informed opinion, then

As for your last -WHAT?! Sorry, what?! Sorry, but I'll take an LP12 w/ the crappiest cartridge you can find anyday over some piece of junk (thinking of my wife's Sony midi turntable - eeek!) and a Shure V15 III or whatever was rated way back when I gave a damn.......

Garbage in garbage out

 

[GeeMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, but I'll take an LP12 w/ the crappiest cartridge you can find anyday over some piece of junk (thinking of my wife's Sony midi turntable - eeek!) and a Shure V15 III or whatever was rated way back when I gave a damn....... Garbage in garbage out

I agree.

I was always under the impression that it was (in order of importance)

1) Turntable
2) Arm
3) Cartridge

That determined sound quality when choosing a vinyl source.

 

[bigshot]

Alignment is more important than any of those. The reason cheap turntables can sound bad is because they don't stay in align properly. But get a good Dual, Riga or Thorens and you'll have no problem.

As for vinyl being superior to digital... well, that's an easy opinion to hold when you don't listen to anyone else's opinions and you don't offer any sort of support for it yourself.

The truth is that both formats are hi-fi formats and are capable of producing great sound.

See ya
Steve

 

[GeeMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Alignment is more important than any of those. The reason cheap turntables can sound bad is because they don't stay in align properly. But get a good Dual, Riga or Thorens and you'll have no problem.

I would agree with you that alignment is important. However, I would disagree that it's somehow more important. It's an important factor, certainly, but then so is keeping your records clean, ensuring that the turntable sits on an isolated platform, periodically checking the suspension (if the turntable is a 'suspended subchassis' design), cleaning the stylus and the 101 other things that vinyl users worry about when playing their records.

Quote:

....As for vinyl being superior to digital... well, that's an easy opinion to hold when you don't listen to anyone else's opinions and you don't offer any sort of support for it yourself....

Hey, hang on a minute, bud. That's a bit harsh, isn't it? How have I "not listened to anyone else's opinions"? When did I say that I think that vinyl is superior to digital?

Reading through this thread, there are pro-vinyl people and pro-digital people. My point of view was that I'm "pro-music" and that, for me, it's all about getting an emotional connection with whatever music I'm playing at the time - regardless of format. I said that I can appreciate digitally-delivered music as well as analogue. I even said that I've finally found a CD/DVD-A/SACD player that I can live with - a Linn Unidisk 1.1. How can I be 'anti-digital' if I'm prepared to invest the price of a small car on a digital device?

Quote:

The truth is that both formats are hi-fi formats and are capable of producing great sound.

On this point we agree. Though for me it's not about 'sound' - but music.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeMan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, hang on a minute, bud. That's a bit harsh, isn't it? How have I "not listened to anyone else's opinions"?

I was replying to Jonbon. Not intended to be an insult to you.

for me, it's all about getting an emotional connection with whatever music I'm playing at the time - regardless of format.[/QUOTE

Emotional connection with music is a function of the creativity and skill of the musicians, not the equipment. Musicians produce emotions. Equipment only produces sound. Caruso on an acoustic grammophone can make people cry.

See ya
Steve

 

[GeeMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was replying to Jonbon. Not intended to be an insult to you.

Oh, OK. Time to lie down and take a chill pill methinks....

Quote:

Emotional connection with music is a function of the creativity and skill of the musicians, not the equipment. Musicians produce emotions. Equipment only produces sound. Caruso on an acoustic grammophone can make people cry.

You're right. I didn't explain myself correctly.

I suppose what I mean is that my goal in choosing equipment is to get as close to the musicians as possible; to experience their performance with as little equipment-induced interference as possible.

For me, the majority of equipment out there "gets in the way" of that goal, resulting in 'sound' but not 'music'.

 

[judgmentday]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeMan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. I was always under the impression that it was (in order of importance) 1) Turntable 2) Arm 3) Cartridge That determined sound quality when choosing a vinyl source.

AND then,

Some OFC cables, OFC Interconnects, a tube Amplifier, a tube Preamplifier, 3 way standing speakers, a power line conditioner, a very well designed audio room, etc.

After acomodating a setup like this, I'd like to compare records with any digital format, and I bet you that no digital recording would sound as natural as a well-recorded vinyl record. I have compared vinyl vs CDs or SACD in setups of $70,000 and the difference is very noticeable. Of course not everybody has the luxury of listening to an expensive setup like I have done. This is a hobby for the rich. No many people can affort to pay $5,000.00 or $10,000 just for a turntable. From the 70s? What do you guys mean by this? There are still companies who make vinyl and companies who make great turntables. This is a nichie market. Like I said, it is just for rich people who can afford this luxuries, where you can almost see the musicians playing in front of you. Singers that died long time ago, appear like if they were alive in your music room! You will never get that with an mp3 player, with any digital format or any solid state audio equipment!!! If you don't believe me, just go to an audiophile store where they sale tube audio equipment and listen for yourself. You will be overjoyed. I guess Audio Research has the Reference 210 mono amplifier for just $19,990 pair.

Check these babies:
http://www.soundstageav.com/audiovideonews.html

 

[Mr Do]

I'm not sure this has been mentioned but the odvious vintage tt is the most famous tt of them all... the technics sl1200 mkII. Modfied by KAB and a good cartridge will blow the crap outa of any dap setup.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/te...l1200_2_e.html

Later.
Do!

 

[Mr Do]

Yeah vinyl is much cooler than an Ipod.
Yeah... that's me.
Later.
Do!

 

[jonnywolfet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Do /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah vinyl is much cooler than an Ipod. Yeah... that's me. Later. Do!

end of argument!