DAL CardDeluxe or 1212M or 0404?

Aug 30, 2004 at 7:55 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 25

bzy83

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i was offered $150 for a new DAL CardDeluxe
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, anybody have used this card? how is this card compared with the EMU1212M and 0404?

i just care about the unbalanced analog output, and i have a SBlive as system defalt sound device. so the new card will only be used for music listening.

so... which one should i pick?

DAL CardDeluxe for $150 OR EMU1212M for $220 OR EMU0404 for $110 ???
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Aug 30, 2004 at 8:37 AM Post #3 of 25
CardDeluxe, definately.. at least as a community service
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Aug 30, 2004 at 8:43 AM Post #4 of 25
DAMN! First of all, both the 1212M and the DAL are GREAT cards (the DAL based from what I hear on the internet, and the 1212M based on what goes in my ear
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) If you are strictly interested in analogue out, both will make you very satisfied, but I would have to go with the 1212M because I believe it has a newer DAC and can support 192khz (if that means anything to you). "Glassman" semms to really know his stuff in this area, he will at least be able to tell you more about the DAL than I can. I was VERY tempted to get the DAL before I heard about the 1212M. Besides, the DAL is more than the 1212M. FWIW, I love my 1212M, and I believe it will bring out amazing detail in your HD-650 like it does for both my HD-590 and my Klipsch speakers.

Crap, Glassman beat me to it.
 
Aug 30, 2004 at 10:21 AM Post #5 of 25
CardDeluxe runs very hot. Expect your case temperature to rise at least 2c. I have never heard the E-MU 0404, 1212m, or 1820m. I do however own a DAL CardDeluxe, and a LynxStudio Lynx L22. (and I've had many other sound cards... too many). I categorize Lynx L22 as sterile, accurate, and unforgiving. Maybe even a little sluggish with low-end bass. Throw a bad recording at the L22 and you might end up like Van Gogh. I use the L22 just like I use Yamaha NS10 monitors - a reference point to make sure that it's the recording, and not my speakers/headphones making farting noises.
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The CardDeluxe is a totally different creature. It's very fast, and punchy in the low-end. Though accurate, it doesn't bring any huge flaws right in your face like the L22 does. I was intially going to replace my M-Audio Revolution 7.1 in this system with an E-MU 1212m, but decided to build a 2-way switch to toggle between speakers/headphones with my CardDeluxe, after trying my speakers out on the Lynx L22 and the CardDeluxe. I thought these Swans were "okay". Prior to the Swans I had FPS 200A flat panels, and prior to that (I don't have enough space anymore) I had maggies (MMG) with accuphase pro-10 power amp. Going from the FPS 200A to Swans was more of a side-step if anything with the Revo being my primary source. Don't even make me start on what a down-grade from the maggies it was. I actually swapped back and forth between FPS 200A speakers and my Swans, depending on if I wanted to listen to classical or not. That's all changed now though. On the Lynx L22 I noticed a dramatic difference in sound resolution. Things were a lot more dynamic, accurate, wide, and the treble wasn't as exaggerated. I didn't know these little speakers sounded that great. After listening to a large variety of music, I decided on seeing how the CardDeluxe performed. It was one of the tracks on the Chesky Audiophile sampler/test discs that sold me on the CardDeluxe as speaker source. The extreme stereo positioning track. On the Lynx L22, it sounded like the voices were coming diagonally outward from the monitors. On the CardDeluxe, it was VERY disembodied. Like there was an extra speaker hidden somewhere way out there. My Swans don't suck for classical anymore either
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CardDeluxe makes me tap my foot to the music, and get embarassed about singing along (I'm shy!). Lynx L22 makes me sit there concentrating more on ignoring the flaws than actually enjoying the music.

The upgraditis bug has bit me though, and I'm going to be listening to a whole bunch of powered monitors that would better suit my room/listening area. I want to pick up an E-MU 1212m eventually just to see how it sounds, but with all of the posts about the mods that make it sound better.... I just don't know. From my point of view, the components were selected to work together. It's like tearing apart a Benchmark DAC-1 and going to town on more expensive opamps. It changes the synergy of the original product, and invalidates all that nice engineering research the company did for you. I suppose in some cases it's just the company in question cutting costs to get it to you for less money... but whatever, the purist in me is being an overopinionated mule, and I don't want to step on any toes.
 
Aug 30, 2004 at 11:22 AM Post #6 of 25
well, 1212m is most probably better card then CardDeluxe (hey, it's at least 3yrs old card!), CD use AK4528 I believe which can be found in many cards of its age as well as Art DI/O for example, certainly not bad chip, but CS4398 used on 1212m is most probably better.. both CD and E-MU use very good clock circuits, CD use opamps from Analog Devices, OP275 I believe, which are probably sonicaly better then NJM2068 used on E-MU.. I'm sure modded 1212m will beat CD, in stock form I dunno.. CD for $150 it's a steal, very good resale value anyway..
 
Aug 30, 2004 at 2:26 PM Post #8 of 25
0404 will be closer to the sonic signature of CardDeluxe, it has AKM DAC.. 1212m, using Crystal DAC will sound closer to Lynx I expect..
 
Aug 30, 2004 at 3:37 PM Post #10 of 25
The 0404 uses AK4395 which is the current top end. Carddeluse uses AK4393 which is older chip which makes sense since this card is old.
 
Aug 30, 2004 at 7:53 PM Post #11 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by lan
Carddeluse uses AK4393 which is older chip which makes sense since this card is old.


I stand updated.. thx lan
 
Aug 30, 2004 at 11:18 PM Post #12 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glassman
well, 1212m is most probably better card then CardDeluxe (hey, it's at least 3yrs old card!), CD use AK4528 I believe which can be found in many cards of its age as well as Art DI/O for example, certainly not bad chip, but CS4398 used on 1212m is most probably better.. both CD and E-MU use very good clock circuits, CD use opamps from Analog Devices, OP275 I believe, which are probably sonicaly better then NJM2068 used on E-MU.. I'm sure modded 1212m will beat CD, in stock form I dunno.. CD for $150 it's a steal, very good resale value anyway..


LynxTwo came out when? Like the middle of 2001? It's an old card too! Newer is not always better, I find most of the time it's more of a side-step. I am getting further and further intrigued by the whole modded 1212m phenomenon. Has anyone managed to post measurable performance increases, at any cost point? What does it cost in total to modify the card to bring out it's full potential? Is the DAC on the 0404 superior to the 1212m? Wouldn't it be better to modify the 0404 then?
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Aug 30, 2004 at 11:31 PM Post #13 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaminJosh
Has anyone managed to post measurable performance increases, at any cost point? What does it cost in total to modify the card to bring out it's full potential? Is the DAC on the 0404 superior to the 1212m? Wouldn't it be better to modify the 0404 then?
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I haven't found the mods to make much, if any significant measureable change,, but everyone that's heard the modded ones think the sujectively sound better. Full potential mods, you could spend $150+ on parts alone. If I were you, I'd just sell the Lynx, and buy a DAC, with that money and the money you'd save by not moddiong.
 
Aug 31, 2004 at 12:30 AM Post #14 of 25
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
I haven't found the mods to make much, if any significant measureable change,, but everyone that's heard the modded ones think the sujectively sound better. Full potential mods, you could spend $150+ on parts alone. If I were you, I'd just sell the Lynx, and buy a DAC, with that money and the money you'd save by not moddiong.


I have an MSB Link III (level 2 Modwright) and an Art D/IO (Bolder Mensa) gathering dust here already that I'm not all that satisfied with. I use my Lynx L22 to record also, so parting with it would be leaving my recording sessions to the CardDeluxe's driver glitches. I am not sure if I am prepared to drop a few large notes on yet another DAC. I'm throwing around the idea about upgrading my speakers, moving to socket 939 on two of my machines, and salivating over the Stax Omega-2's - my poor wallet can't survive this onslaught (and my girlfriend might soon kill me - "it's just a stereo!!!". Good thing I sleep with headphones, I won't hear her coming.
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