cryo-treated tubes?

Dec 17, 2007 at 9:23 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 32
BushGuy

BushGuy

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Has anybody taken the time/oppportunity to compare any of them with untreated tubes? Do the claims really seem to be evident and correct? It is often claimed by seller(s) that it moves them to another whole level. Yeah, I'm dubious about it.........but, I've not jumped into the water......yet.
Cryo-treated tubes - is it really an improvement, or audio voodoo?
 
Dec 25, 2007 at 6:14 PM Post #3 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Since I poked my nose in your thread, http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/cr...t-intro-48622/


Thank you for that reference, Happy Camper.

That was a really useful experiment that Hirsch performed, with his usual fine level of observation. At this point, I'm exploring lower cost alternatives to the well-established NOS tubes (as in "just how good CAN current production tubes sound in my rig"), and, based on Hirsch's observations, I'll be trying a Cryo-treated Sovtek in my own search, as well as other current production tubes available with Cryo-treatment.
 
Dec 25, 2007 at 6:33 PM Post #4 of 32
I have tried cryo treated vs original comparisons with many nos 6cg7's and new production 6p14p-er's .... as well as a few nos 5751 and nos 12at7's. I dont like the cryo effect at all. I heard more detail but the sound was decidely thinner and more analytical .... not to my taste at all. I thought the cryo treatment ruined the RCA 6cg7's I had and I ended up selling all of them. Obviously, I dont feel the cryo moved the tubes to another level; quite the opposite. IMO, the cryo sound truly was different .... but less good.
 
Dec 25, 2007 at 6:36 PM Post #5 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by BushGuy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Has anybody taken the time/oppportunity to compare any of them with untreated tubes? Do the claims really seem to be evident and correct? It is often claimed by seller(s) that it moves them to another whole level. Yeah, I'm dubious about it.........but, I've not jumped into the water......yet.
Cryo-treated tubes - is it really an improvement, or audio voodoo?


It works
biggrin.gif

I had a set of tubes that were Cyro treated sent to me for free from a dealer who sold me an amp. He asked me to try them out. They were the exact same tubes as what I had originally.

Since these didn't cost me anything I had no pressure one way or the other to hear or not hear a difference.

The treated tubes were a nice upgrade.

I have had experience with cryo treated dies that we built at my old job. The treated dies lasted much longer (more parts could be made before the wore out). It's a real and valuable method of treating metals and other materials.

Here's an interesting page about it.
 
Dec 26, 2007 at 2:14 AM Post #6 of 32
Didn't Hirsch' position after further experience/time with those tubes alter markedly?
 
Dec 26, 2007 at 2:29 AM Post #7 of 32
My William Henry knife is cryo treated, twice. It doesn't sound any different to me than my other knives but it holds a good edge but for the cost it should.
 
Dec 26, 2007 at 3:10 AM Post #8 of 32
When you treated a tube you change the molecular arrangement in the metals and all material inside, like organizing them in a different way (or sort off) That alters the performance of the materials, and the tube as a result. It is supposedly to let all internal flows of electrons to be more stable and coherent, as the internal composition of the material will be more uniform as well, now to what extend you will like the results, that is up to you, they will sound differently for sure, the consensus I have heard, is that they sound better after in the majority of the cases...
 
Dec 26, 2007 at 6:01 AM Post #9 of 32
They work!
 
Dec 26, 2007 at 7:43 AM Post #10 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
My William Henry knife is cryo treated, twice. It doesn't sound any different to me than my other knives but it holds a good edge but for the cost it should.


Cryo is effective for tool steel and has been repeatedly proven to be. All of my handplanes have cryo blades, and they have performed as advertised. I think it is an excellent investment for tools.

Haven't tried cryo tubes, tough. Cryo works great on wear surfaces, but the only wear parts on a tube are the pins, and they're not dragged across a piece of wood a few hundred times per hour.

Cryo is very cheap, by the way, and most larger cities have places that will do it for a few dollars. Many parts of tools, guns and cars are treated. I'm sure most will do it for cables or possibly tubes. I don't know about electrical improvements, but no one should pay much of a premium for it. Cryo is inexpensive.
 
Aug 2, 2011 at 4:28 AM Post #12 of 32
If you live in a major city, you should be able to find a place that does cryo treatments for a few dollars.

The problem is that tubes are not engineered for very low temperatures. I'm sure you know that cold causes materials to shrink in size. There is a very real possibility that the tube will contract enough to rupture the vacuum seal. If the seal ruptures, the tube is ruined. This is a great way to kill a good tube.

To do it properly, the tube element should be cryo'ed before the vacuum is created. Doing it afterwards can ruin the tube.

Besides, cryo has never been demonstrated to make an electrical difference. At best, you can waste a few dollars. At worst, you can destroy a great tube.

Also, do not pay a premium for a cryo'ed tube. The process is inexpensive, maybe $3-$5 each. More than that and you're getting ripped off.
 
Aug 3, 2011 at 11:19 AM Post #14 of 32
Quote:
uncle erik said:
If you live in a major city, you should be able to find a place that does cryo treatments for a few dollars.
 
Click to expand...

 
Hi,
 
I happen to live in a remote area without any companies offering cryo treatments.
 
So I have to factor in the cost of sending tubes to and fro. For me, that would easily be an extra $50. Which is why I don't mind paying extra for purchasing cryo'ed tubes.

I know there are mixed opinions about the use of Cryo'ed tubes. Some claim that the cryo process is just snake oil.
 
But this is how I see it, tubes which survive the Cryo process are the creame de la creame when it comes to durability. Tube stores which sell such Cryo'ed tubes probably had to discard a number of tubes which did not survive the process. This is in addition to the normal process of finding matched tubes from a lot of  (say a dozen) rare NOS tubes.
 
So for me, I don't mind paying extra to purchase a set of Cryo'ed NOS Quad or Pairs.
 
Anyway, I recently acquired a lot of 24 NOS tubes for a rather good price.
I know some won't survive the Cryo process but I reckon I have enough to ensure that I can have at least 1 pair of survivors out of those at the end of the cryo treatment.
I plan to compare the cryo'ed tubes vs the non-cryo'ed tubes and conduct some scientific experiments on my own.
 
I have a customised tube tester which I plan to use for measuring the current and transconductance at voltages as high as 300V.
 
I'll also subject them to the usual audio tests. 
 
Now, all I need is a reliable company which offers such cryo services. :)
 
Aug 3, 2011 at 1:38 PM Post #15 of 32


Quote:
lord soth said:
 
But this is how I see it, tubes which survive the Cryo process are the creame de la creame when it comes to durability.
 
Click to expand...



A bit of a yes and no here. Just because a tube survived the cryo process doesn't mean it couldn't have been weakened by the same process. 
 
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