Wannabenewton
100+ Head-Fier
Da vinci x for best of the best and ix for eyecandy.
crinacle's IEM Ranking List
40lb
100+ Head-Fier
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I'm super hyped for this just based off the name alone. I need more ATAGOTI Awards in my life.
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JustJoseph
100+ Head-Fier
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I nominate the UM 3DD-Ti
I nominate the UM 3DD-Ti for the best of the best award. They are a force of nature. God modeled the Himalayans after the 3DD-Ti graph.
I nominate the UM 3DD-Ti for the best of the best award. They are a force of nature. God modeled the Himalayans after the 3DD-Ti graph.
Me too! Very good timing as well for the content, while many "IEMs full of contradiction" were released
I wish 2019 TOTL IEMs will be even more exciting, just to see you guys argue and compare
rgnrk87
New Head-Fier
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Hi Crinn, I noticed you have a personal unit of the FLC 8s which I own as well. I was wondering if you could recommend a direct upgrade to the FLC from Campfire Audio or 64 Audio no price limit. The filter combo I enjoy most on the FLC is gray, gray, gold. Thanks.
That was a rather long time ago and I don't have a FLC8 with me anymore. I can remember that I had them pretty much permanently on Red/Grey/Gold.
As for "direct upgrade"... I can only guess that you wouldn't to go back to a pure-BA setup so you have the Solaris, Trio, Fourte and N8 to choose from. Though I'd say the Solaris is the closest to your desired FLC8 combo out of the 4 highlighted.
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Perhaps IER-Z1R can be considered too if am not wrong the Sony's flagship hybrid. How does all these fair against KSE1500 in terms of pure detail and resolution.. is there any contender yet?
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GodModeIsOn
New Head-Fier
Hi @crinacle, what is difference between Audeze iSine 20 (Cipher) and standard version? Can a Cipher cable make an IEM jump from tier B- to tier A+?
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The wrong thing about iSine 20 is the tonality. It sucks, really it is. But with the help of the Cipher (which carries an built-in EQ), the tonality is now fixed and the iSine 20 can fully demonstrate its incredible, hard-to-find technicalities and therefore produced a very very good sound
Shifting a conversation here so it doesn't get deleted by mods for being off-topic.
Context above.
I've said it before many times in that I attempt to rank according to technical ability, individual signature and flavour notwithstanding. To answer the next question on what exactly is "technical ability", I did a rather lengthy write-up here that I hope you would take the time to read.
To go further with the flavour analogy (that I've actually addressed years ago, please see Disclaimer point no. 1), let's pretend that we're talking about ice cream in this instance. In many regards I would agree with you; flavour preference is the strongest in any hobby and just because something is "technically good" doesn't mean that it will be enjoyable to everybody. But let's disregard different flavours for now; if you like chocolate ice-cream, you cannot deny that there are various different "levels" of chocolate ice-cream. You can get the cheap stuff, straight out of the supermarket freezer and costs a buck per litre. Or you can go to an artisanal creamery and have a single scoop of chocolate ice-cream that costs a fiver but was hand made over three days with high quality ingredients.
From there we can go into detail on why the same flavour of ice cream can differ in quality; the cheap stuff might not even be using actual diary, ice crystal formation ruining texture, quality of cocoa bean used, overall temperature regulation over the freezing and churning process, all that jazz. Now, OF COURSE someone would still prefer the cheaper, objectively "lower quality" ice cream for a multitude of reasons; perhaps it's the nostalgia factor, perhaps the expensive stuff is too rich, perhaps the expensive stuff is simply too expensive, perhaps that person is lactose intolerant and can't stand the heavy cream used in the expensive stuff... for those people, all the power to them. They have saved money and maintained enjoyment in the process and that is something that many would be jealous of.
Now, adding flavour back into the equation. It's still not that complex to take note of; the flavour isn't the one being judged here, rather the level to which the flavour is created. If I ever were to rank ice-cream, ice-cream made with vanilla bean and fresh milk will beat out a tub of dubious chocolate-flavoured diary product, even if I were the world's biggest fan of chocolate.
Switching back to the audio hobby; while there are many different signatures and many people who have esoteric tastes, my opinions are not meant to cater to the outliers. Actually on that note, they aren't meant to cater to anybody except myself. To reiterate, I have been rather open on how I listen to audio (again, the "technical ability" post highlights nearly everything about that) and I don't expect everybody to follow the same processes that I have, but I have decided to publicly post about my journey through online and neither you nor anyone else will stop me from that endeavour.
I usually don't do analogies to this level of elaboration, but I think this warrants it given your level of unreasoned hatred towards me. There is a certain level of dissociation that I can achieve given my time and experience within the hobby, and well I am far from perfect (or should I say, flawless), I would say that I'm at least doing an okay job in my separation of personal taste. As for the people/fans who take my words as gospel or uses them as purchase justification, I don't care and neither should anybody else. I have said it time and time again, my list has been written as a general guide for the interested rather than as a compendium of full-fledged impressions and reviews. Everyone else who deviates from that purpose can suck it.
If you, Mr. @Kitechaser, are still unwilling to see my side of the story that I didn't even make in the first place, then at very least I can say that I've made an attempt to clarify myself.
Context above.
I've said it before many times in that I attempt to rank according to technical ability, individual signature and flavour notwithstanding. To answer the next question on what exactly is "technical ability", I did a rather lengthy write-up here that I hope you would take the time to read.
To go further with the flavour analogy (that I've actually addressed years ago, please see Disclaimer point no. 1), let's pretend that we're talking about ice cream in this instance. In many regards I would agree with you; flavour preference is the strongest in any hobby and just because something is "technically good" doesn't mean that it will be enjoyable to everybody. But let's disregard different flavours for now; if you like chocolate ice-cream, you cannot deny that there are various different "levels" of chocolate ice-cream. You can get the cheap stuff, straight out of the supermarket freezer and costs a buck per litre. Or you can go to an artisanal creamery and have a single scoop of chocolate ice-cream that costs a fiver but was hand made over three days with high quality ingredients.
From there we can go into detail on why the same flavour of ice cream can differ in quality; the cheap stuff might not even be using actual diary, ice crystal formation ruining texture, quality of cocoa bean used, overall temperature regulation over the freezing and churning process, all that jazz. Now, OF COURSE someone would still prefer the cheaper, objectively "lower quality" ice cream for a multitude of reasons; perhaps it's the nostalgia factor, perhaps the expensive stuff is too rich, perhaps the expensive stuff is simply too expensive, perhaps that person is lactose intolerant and can't stand the heavy cream used in the expensive stuff... for those people, all the power to them. They have saved money and maintained enjoyment in the process and that is something that many would be jealous of.
Now, adding flavour back into the equation. It's still not that complex to take note of; the flavour isn't the one being judged here, rather the level to which the flavour is created. If I ever were to rank ice-cream, ice-cream made with vanilla bean and fresh milk will beat out a tub of dubious chocolate-flavoured diary product, even if I were the world's biggest fan of chocolate.
Switching back to the audio hobby; while there are many different signatures and many people who have esoteric tastes, my opinions are not meant to cater to the outliers. Actually on that note, they aren't meant to cater to anybody except myself. To reiterate, I have been rather open on how I listen to audio (again, the "technical ability" post highlights nearly everything about that) and I don't expect everybody to follow the same processes that I have, but I have decided to publicly post about my journey through online and neither you nor anyone else will stop me from that endeavour.
I usually don't do analogies to this level of elaboration, but I think this warrants it given your level of unreasoned hatred towards me. There is a certain level of dissociation that I can achieve given my time and experience within the hobby, and well I am far from perfect (or should I say, flawless), I would say that I'm at least doing an okay job in my separation of personal taste. As for the people/fans who take my words as gospel or uses them as purchase justification, I don't care and neither should anybody else. I have said it time and time again, my list has been written as a general guide for the interested rather than as a compendium of full-fledged impressions and reviews. Everyone else who deviates from that purpose can suck it.
If you, Mr. @Kitechaser, are still unwilling to see my side of the story that I didn't even make in the first place, then at very least I can say that I've made an attempt to clarify myself.
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Good analogy. Experience is also important here - you have heard countless iems. But for the naysayers...perhaps I can count how many iems they have tried with my 10 fingers.
You can only grade something better if its better than something else. If you have only tried 4 brands of vanilla ice cream, you cant just go around and say that one brand you have tried makes the best ice cream. You don't know what you don't know, and you only know when you try it.
You can only grade something better if its better than something else. If you have only tried 4 brands of vanilla ice cream, you cant just go around and say that one brand you have tried makes the best ice cream. You don't know what you don't know, and you only know when you try it.
Raketen
Headphoneus Supremus
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Have noticed that often the commenters who churn themselves into a creamy frozen froth over this and similar projects themselves make or follow some other type of doctrinaire opinion that they accuse the projects of.
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Kitechaser
Headphoneus Supremus
I just listened to a 60,000 dollar McIntosh speaker system. 2 XRT2.1k floor speakers 2x(81 drivers).
It was highlighted as a modern technical achievement, supposedly no matter where you sit in front of the speakers you get to hear the same sound (irrespective of distance and height), an absolute cinematic and musical delicacy. It has all the bells and whistles you could ever dream of.
Everyone around me that got to listen to it, couldn't get enough of the specs and the breakthroughs in technology.
Impressive. Right.
Only....that it sounded like pure crap, a distorted, muddy, incoherant mess.
I heard every single one of those 162 different tiny speakers, and they collectively butchered the music.
I wouldn't pay 200 dollars for that system, let alone 60,000.
Now what good are technicalities, when the arrived at sound is a complete abomination to my ears?
And also is my perception of this system more valid than the others that were praising it?
Who decides?
Is it possible that the more gear you listen to, the more you get used to a particular sound, and that the further you enter into this world of comparing one piece of equipment against the other based on technicalities, what is forgotten and left behind is the most essential, the Music?
Now I do not like the KSE1500 or the Focal Utopia. They both sound harsh to my ears, and have almost zero musicality and flair.
To me they sound flat out boring. I wouldn't listen to them if given to me for free. But I can appreciate the fact that others love them dearly.
At the end of the day, this hobby has to be about the music, and the end result will always be subjective.
My problem is not with you, it is with the people that use these lists and rankings as the end all be all. We all have lists and rankings, its called personal preferences.
Yours just seem to held up as a bible by some of your fervent acolytes.
This is in no way a fault of yours, and again I am not blaming you.
The analogy is not about a chocolate cake and what dairy was used, how many layers, cocoa beans etc etc etc.
But simply, does it taste good.
And only the person eating it can decide.
@crinacle
It was highlighted as a modern technical achievement, supposedly no matter where you sit in front of the speakers you get to hear the same sound (irrespective of distance and height), an absolute cinematic and musical delicacy. It has all the bells and whistles you could ever dream of.
Everyone around me that got to listen to it, couldn't get enough of the specs and the breakthroughs in technology.
Impressive. Right.
Only....that it sounded like pure crap, a distorted, muddy, incoherant mess.
I heard every single one of those 162 different tiny speakers, and they collectively butchered the music.
I wouldn't pay 200 dollars for that system, let alone 60,000.
Now what good are technicalities, when the arrived at sound is a complete abomination to my ears?
And also is my perception of this system more valid than the others that were praising it?
Who decides?
Is it possible that the more gear you listen to, the more you get used to a particular sound, and that the further you enter into this world of comparing one piece of equipment against the other based on technicalities, what is forgotten and left behind is the most essential, the Music?
Now I do not like the KSE1500 or the Focal Utopia. They both sound harsh to my ears, and have almost zero musicality and flair.
To me they sound flat out boring. I wouldn't listen to them if given to me for free. But I can appreciate the fact that others love them dearly.
At the end of the day, this hobby has to be about the music, and the end result will always be subjective.
My problem is not with you, it is with the people that use these lists and rankings as the end all be all. We all have lists and rankings, its called personal preferences.
Yours just seem to held up as a bible by some of your fervent acolytes.
This is in no way a fault of yours, and again I am not blaming you.
The analogy is not about a chocolate cake and what dairy was used, how many layers, cocoa beans etc etc etc.
But simply, does it taste good.
And only the person eating it can decide.
@crinacle
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jeffreyw311
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That's exactly the case. Just to back you up here, Audeze have seem to indicate that they were aiming for sheer technical performance first and subjective audio quality second. The exact wording they use is that they ended up with not "perfect" response (still better than in most IEMs) but excellent behaving earphones. Which is basically code word for IEMs sound like hot trash but man do they measure well.
EQ works best with transducers that behave extremely well. Audeze iSINEs have vanishing low distortion so they're absolutely perfect cases for digital processing.
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