[crinacle]

The A12t is my first choice to buy in a few weeks as I'm waiting for a possible Black Friday sale and hearing quality control issues is making me worried. Turnaround time might be a little less from me since I'm in the usa, but quality control problems is still quality control problems. I haven't really heard any complaints about 64 Audio before, but I might have to rethink my options like spending more for the VE8 or SE6 (if there's ever a review by a trusted reviewer). I may have to check your list again and other reviews of other TOTL CIEMs to find an alternate option.

I think it's interesting that there's talk of the N8 universal when I asked 64 Audio directly what shows it will be at or if there's any other way to listen to the N8 universal demo as I'm interested in that model as well as the A12t, and the person who emailed me back claimed that there isn't one and I said that multiple people on head fi listened to the N8 demo at RMAF and I know that there's some in asian stores and I never got a reply back after that. Maybe I shouldn't give them my money if they are run by liars.

Talks of a universal N8 have mostly been rumours. There are N8 demos of course but technically they aren’t for sale, and the common man can’t order them.

Well I don’t think they’re being malicious with that answer - fwiw there isn’t a universal N8 for sale. I heard rumours from my local 64 audio distributor that they’re considering selling universal N8 IEMs in the (distant) future, but at the moment, their plan is to have it be a custom-only model. They do have universal N8 demo units, but it’s only that, a demo.

As for @crinacle’s situation re: sound differences, could we attribute the differences in sound to the drastically different housing material/environment of the uni vs. custom? Or is it for sure an issue with the tuning? Hope there’s a satisfactory solution at the end of this

It could be a variety of things but that’s all speculation. At any case, 64 has kindly offered expedited RMA so we’ll see how that goes.

Just got a chance to listen to the Empire Ears Bravado. As the entry level hybrid in the EE X-Series line with a W9 dynamic driver handling the lows & a single BA for the mids & highs, it didn't have the best soundstage & clarity, but the Nemesis with its dual W9 drivers, 1 mid, 2 high layout, might fit the bill. I found the single W9 in the Bravado extended well into the lows with clean sub-bass. Can't imagine what 2 W9 drivers could do.

~edit - just read the headfonics review of the Nemesis and they say it's not a basshead IEM, but if you like clean tight sub-bass it delivers

I think all the EE hybrids are basshead IEMs. Personally not for me; too much midbass.

@crinacle bad guy bad audio reviews made a rant video for you, i dont understand why he is mad, i think you are doing a great job with your impressions and measurements

I didn’t want to address it in this thread but since you brought it up... there’s not much to address anyways. He basically just calls me a piece of crap for 4 minutes, I can’t really argue against that.

Anyways I’m just honoured that someone is willing to dedicate a good chunk of a YouTube video to talk about what I do. That’s where I think to myself “man, I’ve made it”

 

[OverlordRush]

"find out which group of fan boies he'll piss off, in the next episode of Crinacle's List!"

 

[echineko]

We are very sorry you are unhappy with your N8. Of course, we will be glad to accept another RMA. I will PM you with details. We will also send you a pre-paid mailing label, and put rush service on the repair.

Glad to see a timely response from 64. Related to this, could you elaborate if the measured and audible differences crin was experiencing from the universal demo he initially auditioned is a deviation, or the intended tuning for N8 moving forward?

I only ask as while the N8 universal and the recent CIEM he received seem quite different going by the measurements, both channels of the latest N8 CIEM are indeed very closely matched, which would suggest it was tuned as such intentionally. Would be good to clear this up, as I was also interested in possibly getting a pair before all this.

 

[Kygreying]

Glad to see a timely response from 64. Related to this, could you elaborate if the measured and audible differences crin was experiencing from the universal demo he initially auditioned is a deviation, or the intended tuning for N8 moving forward?

I only ask as while the N8 universal and the recent CIEM he received seem quite different going by the measurements, both channels of the latest N8 CIEM are indeed very closely matched, which would suggest it was tuned as such intentionally. Would be good to clear this up, as I was also interested in possibly getting a pair before all this.

Same! Would like to hear about this from @64Audio. I'm also considering the N8 so it would be great to know if there has been an intentional change in the sound, which would then differ from the demo which I very much liked! Thanks

 

[FangJoker]

Talks of a universal N8 have mostly been rumours. There are N8 demos of course but technically they aren’t for sale, and the common man can’t order them.



It could be a variety of things but that’s all speculation. At any case, 64 has kindly offered expedited RMA so we’ll see how that goes.



I think all the EE hybrids are basshead IEMs. Personally not for me; too much midbass.



I didn’t want to address it in this thread but since you brought it up... there’s not much to address anyways. He basically just calls me a piece of crap for 4 minutes, I can’t really argue against that.

Anyways I’m just honoured that someone is willing to dedicate a good chunk of a YouTube video to talk about what I do. That’s where I think to myself “man, I’ve made it”

I only wanted to know if the N8 demo would be at RMAF or any other show on the west coast and they said it didn't exist which I knew wasn't the truth. I'm not really looking for universals unless it's the only option as I've become more sensitive to tips irritating my ears.

I would want to listen to it to make sure that the DD could handle fast hitting bass notes and if the impact was good enough for me. If not then I would look at the A12t which I know has good impact and speed down low, but if the N8 is competent enough for me with a demo at a show then I'd go with the N8 for it's more natural decay and timbre.

 

[SilverEars]

Alright, my 64 Audio N8 just arrived and I am extremely, extremely disappointed. Figured I should just post about it since I've already given 64 Audio the benefit of the doubt once.

DISCLAIMER: It has been less than 24 hours since I've received my custom, but my initial impressions are so bad that I doubt they will change too much over time. Plus, the measurements pretty much tell the whole story.

So originally, most of my impressions on the N8 was based on the universal demo unit back in Music Sanctuary. It was great, it was amazing, I had to have one and so I did. I wrote a few impressions (more notably in my hybrid IEM article) and just waited.

First time my customs came, they were fine. They weren't completely perfect; it was a little thicker and heavier (sound wise) compared to the demo unit but nothing too major. The subbass still had its exceptional reach and decay and the mids/treble was fine, except from channel imbalance in the 2-5k region. So okay, I can still kind of live with the channel imbalance, but hey I paid good cash for it. So I decided to have it sent back and fix up the channel imbalance.

And here we are. The second round. And boy, it's bad; well, bad relative to what I expected anyways. YES, the channel matching is now basically perfect. Unfortunately, now it sounds like a typical generic hybrid with one-note bass, which is definitely not what I paid for. I paid for the thing I heard back in MS, not... this. Now there's a midbass hump and the subbass is barely articulated even on my bass-specific test tracks. I don't even feel the desire to listen to this; the FiiO F9 gets me better bass for crying out loud.

I usually don't post graphs in this thread but I think it visualises exactly what is going on here.

Current unit


Current unit (red) vs demo unit (green)


Current unit (green) vs pre-RMA unit (red)
​

I'll definitely be sending this back again if 64 Audio accepts yet another RMA. But at this point, I can't even recommend anyone get an N8 due to all these inconsistencies. And hell, I'll have to wait another 2 months just to get my N8 fixed if it even gets properly fixed at all. If they can't, well, I'll just have to vote with my wallet and just eat the reshell + depreciation costs by selling it.

There will also be a "stealth" readjustment of the ranking based on what I'm hearing with this custom unit in the coming days. Only fair after all.

Thanks for sharing. I ran into the opposite situation with Hidition Demo vs Custom. Demo sounded quite bright and people on the demo tour pointed it out. I found the demo unit bright as well, but I also owned the custom before that didn't sound bright (at least not in that level). Recently had the custom NT6 made and now certain that their demo was actually bright sounding. Hidition needs to tuned their demo better as that demo unit probably gives wrong impressions.

I think I had a similar experience with UERM. Actually the universal demo was impressive and then the custom wasn't as good as what I recalled of their universal demo.

At least for U18t or Forte, they put out universals models (not demos) and likely the universals are tuned, but given my NT6 experience, I realized universal demo can sound different from the actual custom itself.

Your experience has me question how consistant customs really are. Was your refit done with different ear impressions? I wonder how much different ear impressions effect the final outcome?

Looking at the graphs, the demo looks more like PP8 and the custom's (current) low-end response looks warmer like Andro's low-end (ignoring the high-end, that was one of the differences I saw when PP8 and Andro graphs were overlapped).

 

[crinacle]

Thanks for sharing. I ran into the opposite situation with Hidition Demo vs Custom. Demo sounded quite bright and people on the demo tour pointed it out. I found the demo unit bright as well, but I also owned the custom before that didn't sound bright (at least not in that level). Recently had the custom NT6 made and now certain that their demo was actually bright sounding.

I think I had a similar experience with UERM. Actually the universal demo was impressive and then the custom wasn't as good as what I heard of their universal demo.

At least for U18t or Forte, they put out universals models (not demos) and likely the universals are tuned, but given my NT6 experience, I realized universal demo can sound different from the actual custom itself.

The only differences I'll concede is treble (due to the differences in insert depth and silicone/foam tips versus acrylic), bass (due to seal) and possibly imaging (due to leak from a less-than-optimal fit). In my experiences, universals are generally brighter and my theory was pretty much confirmed when I tried a Kumitate KL-Sirius universal demo versus someone else's customs. Anything beyond that is (at least, the way I see it) no longer a matter of custom vs universal but rather differences in the manufacturing or fitting process.

 

[SilverEars]

@crinacle bad guy bad audio reviews made a rant video for you, i dont understand why he is mad, i think you are doing a great job with your impressions and measurements

I will probably try out the DM6 to see how far the price-point has come. Who knows, with the DM6 and whatever else might be giant killers or very close comparable. We maybe getting better value now a days. I hope this is the trend as the iem maket has gone rediculous pricing in the high-end.

 

[iBo0m]

Sorry to read this. Can't they make an exception for you and build you a universal one then?
Years ago (before I stepped into customs) I had a 1964 Ears (name of the company at that time) V6-Stage. This was also officially a 'custom only' model. But when asked explicitly they build me a universal version anyway.

As I was still looking for a DD or hybrid IEM with superb (subbass) rumble and a holographic soundstage to turn my current collection into (the well known fairy tale) 'End game', the N8 was on top of my list.
Now I think I would be probably better of with a 2nd hand CA Vega (certainly more interesting based on current 'used' prices) or maybe Solaris instead

About a month ago I've tried to ask 64 audio whether it's possible to make N8t in universal shell for me, but no matter how much I've tried to explain my reasons to get one, I wasn't lucky :-/

 

[Kerouac]

About a month ago I've tried to ask 64 audio whether it's possible to make N8t in universal shell for me, but no matter how much I've tried to explain my reasons to get one, I wasn't lucky :-/

Well, at least you gave it a try...
Maybe they grew too big as a company to fulfill such personal requests...or maybe my arguments were just a bit stronger than yours at that time

Anyway, I'm still surprised that there can be so much difference in signature between the same (N8) model in universal and custom shape.

 

[iBo0m]

Well, at least you gave it a try...
Maybe they grew too big as a company to fulfill such personal requests...or maybe my arguments were just a bit stronger than yours at that time

Anyway, I'm still surprised that there can be so much difference in signature between the same (N8) model in universal and custom shape.

Indeed.

It's hard to say, what's the reason (just for the info, If I remember correctly I was told that one unit custom/universal takes them 14 days to make)... Anyway, it's a pity, especially in my case, because somehow I have rule not to go for customs.

Btw, I'm certain Corleone would get an exclusive universal pair made for order .

 

[crinacle]

Alright, N8 sent off. Now the third episode of The Wait™ begins...

 

[echineko]

Glad to see a timely response from 64. Related to this, could you elaborate if the measured and audible differences crin was experiencing from the universal demo he initially auditioned is a deviation, or the intended tuning for N8 moving forward?

I only ask as while the N8 universal and the recent CIEM he received seem quite different going by the measurements, both channels of the latest N8 CIEM are indeed very closely matched, which would suggest it was tuned as such intentionally. Would be good to clear this up, as I was also interested in possibly getting a pair before all this.

And on that note, can us mere mortals get a reply, perhaps?

 

[superuser1]

And on that note, can us mere mortals get a reply, perhaps?

No!! they dont talk to mortals

 

[echineko]

No!! they dont talk to mortals

Then they have no business selling to mortals either, I'd contend...