crinacle's IEM FR measurement database
Aug 14, 2019 at 11:34 AM Post #1,218 of 1,335
@crinacle

Would be interested in UERM universal sample measurement.

Also, the peak on custom iems is due to the insertion depth of the custom on a couple that is for measuring universals right? I don't believe the treble frequencies of customs can be represented accurately by those couplers since they do not simulate custom fit.

Also, the Zeus XR. Is it a universal sample?

https://crinacle.com/graphs/empire-ears-zeus-xr/
 
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Aug 15, 2019 at 1:57 PM Post #1,219 of 1,335
Interested in the Lypertek Bevi with a price being attractive

But, I wonder what are the chances of finding a well channel matched one? I have low hopes after my experiences with various Philips iems. Sony MH755 however is excellent. Same for AKG Samsung iem I find sounds better than the Sony.


Bevi-1024x505.jpg
 
Aug 16, 2019 at 2:17 PM Post #1,220 of 1,335
Also, the peak on custom iems is due to the insertion depth of the custom on a couple that is for measuring universals right? I don't believe the treble frequencies of customs can be represented accurately by those couplers since they do not simulate custom fit.

I may be wrong (in which case, please argue with me!), but I think the opposite is more likely true, i.e., that measurement of a CIEM built for you is more likely to be representative of what you hear than measurement of a UIEM would be. All UIEMs are going to have different fits in people with different diameter and length of ear canal. The IEC 711 spec was really designed for deep-insertion hearing aids and only has the half-wave resonance peak above 10 kHz with deep insertion. At larger distances between driver and eardrum (pretty common with a lot of modern shallow-insertion IEMs), that peak can easily drop below 10 kHz. From Morten Wille's white paper:

Screenshot 2019-08-16 10.20.36.png

So it's a crapshoot trying to measure UIEM's treble response - it can be all over the map. It's not their fault. Or the coupler's fault. It's our fault, as a species, for having a large standard deviation in ear anatomy.

Most CIEMs are created from an impression or scan that goes to the second bend in the ear canal, so you've at least removed everything prior to that from the equation, and we can be fairly confident that there's less variability from the 2nd bend->eardrum than there is over the entire ear canal. Amplitude and spread are still likely to be a bit ambiguous/uncertain because the coupler mic is normal to the source/canal, whereas actual eardrums are angled, but as long as you get a good seal (mounting putty should be perfectly adequate) with the CIEM tip at the coupler reference plane, I think you could be more confident about the location of those canal resonance peaks than you could with a UIEM measurement.

Representing UIEM data is tricky, because there's a very good chance you'll hear that peak somewhere other than at 8 kHz. I understand @crinacle had to make a pragmatic choice, and I have to tread lightly here, because 1) I greatly appreciate and respect the work he's done and 2) I can't really think of a better solution, but forcing an 8 kHz peak for each and every UIEM (or CIEM?!?) doesn't properly differentiate between shallow- and deep-insertion IEMs, i.e., one that may have an 8 kHz canal resonance peak, and one that almost certainly doesn't. I suppose one could create a plot that has a superposition of all the above peaks, but how would readers figure out where they are in that spread? @SilverEars - good idea of yours about us getting all our ears scanned :) But for UIEMs, you'd really need a full 3D CAD representation of your ears all the way to the eardrum and a full 3D CAD model of your UIEM (+ eartip) and a clever CAD package that could put the two together, because driver->eardrum distance won't only depend on your ear canal length - the shape and diameter of the ear canal will dictate where the UIEM ends up seated.

I don't know what the answer is to all this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Aug 16, 2019 at 2:49 PM Post #1,221 of 1,335
I may be wrong (in which case, please argue with me!), but I think the opposite is more likely true, i.e., that measurement of a CIEM built for you is more likely to be representative of what you hear than measurement of a UIEM would be. All UIEMs are going to have different fits in people with different diameter and length of ear canal. The IEC 711 spec was really designed for deep-insertion hearing aids and only has the half-wave resonance peak above 10 kHz with deep insertion. At larger distances between driver and eardrum (pretty common with a lot of modern shallow-insertion IEMs), that peak can easily drop below 10 kHz. From Morten Wille's white paper:


So it's a crapshoot trying to measure UIEM's treble response - it can be all over the map. It's not their fault. Or the coupler's fault. It's our fault, as a species, for having a large standard deviation in ear anatomy.

Most CIEMs are created from an impression or scan that goes to the second bend in the ear canal, so you've at least removed everything prior to that from the equation, and we can be fairly confident that there's less variability from the 2nd bend->eardrum than there is over the entire ear canal. Amplitude and spread are still likely to be a bit ambiguous/uncertain because the coupler mic is normal to the source/canal, whereas actual eardrums are angled, but as long as you get a good seal (mounting putty should be perfectly adequate) with the CIEM tip at the coupler reference plane, I think you could be more confident about the location of those canal resonance peaks than you could with a UIEM measurement.

Representing UIEM data is tricky, because there's a very good chance you'll hear that peak somewhere other than at 8 kHz. I understand @crinacle had to make a pragmatic choice, and I have to tread lightly here, because 1) I greatly appreciate and respect the work he's done and 2) I can't really think of a better solution, but forcing an 8 kHz peak for each and every UIEM (or CIEM?!?) doesn't properly differentiate between shallow- and deep-insertion IEMs, i.e., one that may have an 8 kHz canal resonance peak, and one that almost certainly doesn't. I suppose one could create a plot that has a superposition of all the above peaks, but how would readers figure out where they are in that spread? @SilverEars - good idea of yours about us getting all our ears scanned :) But for UIEMs, you'd really need a full 3D CAD representation of your ears all the way to the eardrum and a full 3D CAD model of your UIEM (+ eartip) and a clever CAD package that could put the two together, because driver->eardrum distance won't only depend on your ear canal length - the shape and diameter of the ear canal will dictate where the UIEM ends up seated.

I don't know what the answer is to all this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Can think of 2 ways for fixing this, but it's kinda science fiction at this point. One would be to have a very small microphone in the nozzle that would measure reflected sounds from the eardrum and use an algorithm to create a custom dsp profile for a music source - this would be quite complicated due to the fact that you'd need source to become a part of an iem, when do you recalibrate profile, what happens if an iem isn't always in the same place in your ear and peak isn't where eq is targeting it, do you need white/pink noise to measure, more pars that could brake...a bunch of bad stuff with current tech. Other option would be to create very detailed 3D models of one's ears and then calculate tubing size, lenght, damper positions for each driver to try and minimize potential peaks. This is also dangerous for the same reasons CIEMs are, ears change over time. Recalculating and reshelling every couple of years would be painful and expensive.

Third option is phase canceling.... Ocharaku Flat-4 is an example of that, but it's fixed to a certain frequency. Crinacle has it in his database and it looks just scary because it misses the peak.
 
Aug 16, 2019 at 3:09 PM Post #1,222 of 1,335
Can think of 2 ways for fixing this, but it's kinda science fiction at this point. One would be to have a very small microphone in the nozzle that would measure reflected sounds from the eardrum and use an algorithm to create a custom dsp profile for a music source - this would be quite complicated due to the fact that you'd need source to become a part of an iem, when do you recalibrate profile, what happens if an iem isn't always in the same place in your ear and peak isn't where eq is targeting it, do you need white/pink noise to measure, more pars that could brake...a bunch of bad stuff with current tech. Other option would be to create very detailed 3D models of one's ears and then calculate tubing size, lenght, damper positions for each driver to try and minimize potential peaks. This is also dangerous for the same reasons CIEMs are, ears change over time. Recalculating and reshelling every couple of years would be painful and expensive.

Third option is phase canceling.... Ocharaku Flat-4 is an example of that, but it's fixed to a certain frequency. Crinacle has it in his database and it looks just scary because it misses the peak.
Options 1 and 2 aren't entirely science fiction. The Nuraphones use an otoacoustic emission test to tune their profile. (I've no idea how accurate that is, or even where the mic is mounted?) Most OEMs are trying to do clever things along the line of 2. But the problem with options 2 and 3 is you don't know where to damp those peaks, because they'll be different for everybody. If you're off by a kHz or so, you've made the issue far, far worse :wink:
 
Oct 11, 2019 at 6:18 AM Post #1,224 of 1,335
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Oct 11, 2019 at 9:48 AM Post #1,226 of 1,335
Interesting. I didn't know Bon-03 measurements were up. Looks like Crin's 03 sample is not like Oxygen like the measurement comparison somebody pointed out earlier. QC variance?

I've seen a lot of variance with Blon units. Every measured FR looks different. Pretty sure at $30-ish they're not doing any QC and shipping them out.
 
Oct 11, 2019 at 10:54 AM Post #1,227 of 1,335
I've seen a lot of variance with Blon units. Every measured FR looks different. Pretty sure at $30-ish they're not doing any QC and shipping them out.
$5 MH755 I believe has consistancy, and likely Moondrop as well, as they offer iems in the same price range. I think it depends on the manufacturer.

One thing is for sure, there are a lot of manufacturers that puts out inconsistant responses as well. I measured 4-5 Philips cheapies, and left and right channels were totally off. I have absolutely no faith in Philips iems. AKG iems that comes with Samsung phones have inconsistancies as well. Also, Lypertek Bevi above I'ved posted.

I recently measured LCDi4, and what a crappy response, and Cipher or Reveal EQ doesn't really fix the broken response either. Do we need this at $2.5k? I have high doubt their drivers are consistant at all.
 
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Oct 11, 2019 at 12:29 PM Post #1,228 of 1,335
$5 MH755 I believe has consistancy, and likely Moondrop as well, as they offer iems in the same price range. I think it depends on the manufacturer.

One thing is for sure, there are a lot of manufacturers that puts out inconsistant responses as well. I measured 4-5 Philips cheapies, and left and right channels were totally off. I have absolutely no faith in Philips iems. AKG iems that comes with Samsung phones have inconsistancies as well. Also, Lypertek Bevi above I'ved posted.

I recently measured LCDi4, and what a crappy response, and Cipher or Reveal EQ doesn't really fix the broken response either. Do we need this at $2.5k? I have high doubt their drivers are consistant at all.

Yes, I didn't just mean price. It definitely depends on the manufacturer. But you'd be surprised how many companies get away with cutting costs on QC for FR unit variance. They usually do QC with intermediate steps that don't require as much human labor, such as voice coil wind consistency, diaphragm consistency, glue consistency, etc. --- all stuff that can be automated with computer vision techniques or simple 1 or 2-step repetitive labor. Actually sticking a fully built earphone, putty and all, into an ear simulator, and checking it with respect to target FR is an obvious production bottleneck. The Blon was clearly put on there as some kind of parts cost salvage project. It's entirely possible they used 'B stock' drivers off production lines like the Oxygen (and probably other products as well) to stick into the Blon.
 
Nov 5, 2019 at 5:41 PM Post #1,229 of 1,335
Hey Crinacle, I'm trying to do rudimentary measurements of the AirPods Pro for a review, and just spent a lot of time (litearlly 3 days lol) reading up on everyone's efforts in figuring out an affordable way to measure IEMs without shelling out over $2500 for an IEC 60318-4 / IEC 60711measurement rig. Considering the relatively low quality and lower price of these headphones, I wanted to use something similar to the mobile rig you had before you stepped up to an IEC 711 compliant device... I was wondering if you could send me some version of the compensation curves you generated in the early days when using the Dayon iMM-6?



Some choice comparisons to test out my new compensation curve:

Andromeda: against Ken Ball's


Vega: against Ken Ball's


Jupiter: against Ken Ball's



Prophile-8: against headflux


I think I'm rather happy with what I got now. Perhaps a little insensitivity between 8K and 10K but doesn't seem like it can be solved with compensation.
 
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