Coupling Caps Notes Update
Dec 20, 2006 at 7:11 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

dsavitsk

MOT: ECP Audio
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For those of you who follow such things, I have made some additions to my comparison of various coupling caps. I added a few more things to test as well as adding a high voltage test.
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http://www.ecp.cc/cap-notes.html
 
Dec 20, 2006 at 7:38 AM Post #2 of 14
This is great, dsavitsk, and a very worthwhile service to the DIY community.

As already noted, you have completely sold me on the Nichicon Muse ES when it comes to electrolytics as coupling caps - especially when bypassed by a reasonable film cap (Wima MKP on a Millett). The bass is simply astounding with no detectable loss in highs with the film cap.

I haven't got around to experimenting with the boutique film caps, yet - but will use your chart with confidence when I do.

Thanks much.
 
Dec 20, 2006 at 12:17 PM Post #3 of 14
Nice table, very interesting to see your findings. I currently have blackgates bypassed with auricaps in one amp, and solens in the other. I'm planning on trying the asc alone; the bg alone; and the asc bypassed with a small auricap.

As it stands, the amp with the lone solens has a *tiny bit* sweeter top end, but at the cost of a *slightly less* sweet midrange. The deep end is also not as enjoyable. I'd like to capture a portion of that extra sweetness up top without loosing the mid and low performance. At least that's my hope.
 
Dec 20, 2006 at 5:05 PM Post #4 of 14
Good job man! I've used your guide before to pick out capacitors.

I'm also considering doing something along those lines with capacitors (once my dynatube is done).

Keep up the good work.

~Tom
 
Dec 20, 2006 at 6:25 PM Post #6 of 14
Now (and I'm sure you have given it plenty of thought) aren't the Mundorf's the next try? For whatever reason, I have only used old Vitamin Q's, Jensen paper-in-oils, and Auricaps but my next cap will certainly be Mundorf's. They seem to be a big rage in the DIY community.
There is the Supreme, Silver/Oil, and Silver/Gold (they basically double in price as you go up) and I'm told by a user of all the above the Supreme's (basically same price as auricaps) are fantastic.
Thanks for sharing your impressions.
 
Dec 21, 2006 at 2:13 AM Post #7 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by macm75 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Now (and I'm sure you have given it plenty of thought) aren't the Mundorf's the next try? For whatever reason, I have only used old Vitamin Q's, Jensen paper-in-oils, and Auricaps but my next cap will certainly be Mundorf's. They seem to be a big rage in the DIY community.
There is the Supreme, Silver/Oil, and Silver/Gold (they basically double in price as you go up) and I'm told by a user of all the above the Supreme's (basically same price as auricaps) are fantastic.



There are tons of caps I'd like to try: Jensen, AudioNote, Dynamicap, all the various flavors of RelCap, Sonicap, the various things from Mundorf or course, and about 10 others I can't seem to remember right now. Problem is that I only buy new caps when I need them for something, and since projects have gotten larger and more expensive of late, and since I now have a surplus of caps, the rate at which I try them is pretty slow. I do have in my head that, once the above linked project is done, I may do a parafeed version of it which would necessitate a new set of caps. But, honestly, that is not likely to happen for many months if at all. So, I'd love to do it, but probably not for a while.

I read a "paper" recently from a guy that compared lots of very expensive caps -- I have been searching for it for the last few days to link to it, but have not restumbled upon it. A lot of it is audiophile BS, but some of it is pretty useful. However, he rated one if the caps I like a lot so poorly (the Jupiters) that I am not sure how much credence I give to the rest of what he has to say. I also think he may have had a bad set ... or I have a particularly good set I suppose ... or that he melted them, but anyhow, his ratings are out there and worth looking at. He liked the top of the line Mundorf a lot as I recall, and also the top of the line AudioNote copper foil's I think.

I also have a few more things to add (blackgate bypassed by VitQ, blackgate bypassed by Russian Teflon, blackgate bypassed by sonicap, etc) but have not gotten around to writing it up yet. For the record, all of those things were improvements to a Blackgate N series cap with the VitQ being my favorite and the sonicap my least
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-d
 
Dec 21, 2006 at 7:27 PM Post #8 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavitsk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have been searching for it for the last few days to link to it, but have not restumbled upon it.


Just keep going! There are at least one pair of eyes and one set of brains itching to read more about quality caps...
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Dec 22, 2006 at 6:33 PM Post #9 of 14
I would like to second your findings with the motor run caps. I prefer the GE caps (Polyprop in oil) but get good results with other brands, too. For the money, they can't be beat. Size is the only downside. I buy new surplus caps for about $2.50 to $3.00 each. They are so much better then any electrolytic cap and way ahead of the Solen's and MIT's that I compared them too.
 
Dec 22, 2006 at 8:34 PM Post #10 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavitsk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I read a "paper" recently from a guy that compared lots of very expensive caps -- I have been searching for it for the last few days to link to it, but have not restumbled upon it. A lot of it is audiophile BS, but some of it is pretty useful.


I deployed my brown-belt in google-fu (I guessed a cap review would discuss bass) and I think this is it: http://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf
 
Dec 22, 2006 at 9:29 PM Post #11 of 14
Quote:

Originally Posted by psilosome /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I deployed my brown-belt in google-fu (I guessed a cap review would discuss bass) and I think this is it: http://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf


That's it, thanks for finding it. So, to comment on the Jupiter thing, the part I find weird is that he describes them as warm sounding. I say they are slightly warm, but compared to something like an auricap, they are not warm in the least. They are really clean, detailed caps. Maybe I'm just an "inexperienced" listener. I'll note that Paul Joppa at bottlehead seems to agree with me
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Dec 24, 2006 at 4:47 AM Post #12 of 14
Well, I found some nice capacitor reviews (perhaps a bit more down to earth than the one posted above...).

http://www.10audio.com/sonicap_oimp_multicap.htm

Here they find that the OIMP V-cap isn't exactly worth the money, and is in fact bettered by the $20 sonicap. But the application for the capacitor may have had an effect on this (crossover). So YMMV. I'm curious as to how the teflon one compares though, but man those are way too expensive and I probably wouldn't ever buy them anyway.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Here's another one, and they find that the Mundorf ones are pretty good (pricing is fairly good as well from what I can gather ~30 dollars for silver / oil ones at partsconnexion.)

It should also be noted that Dr. Gilmore said that Audio Notes Copper capacitors sound good (and considering he's tested out a lot of stuff, they must be at least pretty good). These also get a glowing review at tnt-audio.

I have tried AuriCaps and must say that they are pretty good, and make good coupling capacitors (especially for the money.) They're definately worth a try.

But yes, I would like to see a comparison of the said capacitors, that would be very interesting...
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~Tom
 
Dec 26, 2006 at 10:16 AM Post #13 of 14
Beware of Snake Oil.
Because I paid a lot of money for this cap - ergo it must be good!

I have used PIOs' both from Audionote and Russian military for years. I don't like a sterile sound. For this reason I don't use Teflon caps, I did buy some Russian 0.022uF for bipassing but never got around to using them, they are also very large, which brings me on to the main point of my post.

Mundorf - they make a whole range of caps and are very well thought of in Europe. Freinds have used the Silver/Gold and can't tell any difference with the Silver version. Others say that the Silver version is sterile - they are also very large.

I bought a Bada PH12 h/amp. In it's standard form it is merely OK BUT change out two pairs of coupling caps and it's something else. The problem as with many pieces of equipment is, that the designer does'nt mean for anyone to change what he has done. There is precious little room inside the Bada which is a shame as it is full of Solen caps which are fine in Speaker x/overs but don't belong anywhere else IMO. I changed out two 1uF and two 2.2uF caps for Mundorf - Audiphiler - they are cheap, they are small and they are superb.They combine the best of PIO and polyprop. I cannot fault their performance across the entire audible frequency range.

I have also bought some American ERSE and Dynamicap to try and I will but I think that ultimately the M/Audiophiler will return.

So enamoured am I with these Audiophiler caps that I may well remove the Audionote PIOs in my two power amps to try these.

Everyone raves about BGs and in PSUs they are excellant (and hugely expensive) but in my KT88 amps I changed out some BGs for Silmics (coupling caps) and they were so much better in the bass and don't take a lot of time to burn in. Used in power supplies, Silmics have virtually all the performance of BGs at a fraction of the price.
 
Dec 26, 2006 at 5:14 PM Post #14 of 14
The Silmics behaving better than the BGs in the power supply may have to do with them having a higher ESR / ESL than the BGs. Although I'm not entirely sure, I do remember Garbz telling me something about lower ESR / ESL capacitors have specific applications and must be considered carefully. I know that low ESR / ESL capacitors after a voltage regulator is a bad idea, but I'm not sure about filtering applications. This probably has something to do with it, but someone should elaborate further on this.

~Tom
 

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