[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayk /img/forum/go_quote.gif HD650? Nope, you need something with a fair bit more grunt for those things. Audio-gd compass didn't have enough power to drive them (and that's a discreet no opa design amp). Regardless I will update this thread with my impressions of the Swing once it arrives.

Hmm, I also don't like the idea that the new opamp supposedly has less detail and is more "forgiving." That usually tends to mean less fidelity.

Also surprised to hear someone say the Swing couldn't power HD650s - supposedly it has a gain switch which should make it sufficient. Care to elaborate? Not enough power, not enough damping... what?

bump... waiting for your impressions...

 

[chris_ah1]

yeah, so why cant the swing power HD650???

What would you guys go for - corda swing or Graham Slee Solo for HD650???

I am tempted to say sod it and just get the Asus xonar STX2 though

 

[rayk]

I've had the swing for a bit now, nice amp - to me it sounds a bit more open than the compass amp did, also the AD900s bass slam is quite hard-hitting now (in a good way, and when it's appropriate). It's warm, but quite subtle so it still has a nice amount of detail and separation. Dacmagic + swing makes for a quite a great combo, I think those with easy to drive phones can be quite happy with it.

All the gain switch does is make the volume louder for the headphones, so yes the HD650 will sound loud enough.

HOWEVER the reason why it doesn't power them properly is due to the fact that they sound quite flat and wimpy, it's not the loudness, it's the fact the drivers aren't getting the amount of power required to excite them properly.

Don't get the swing if you need to drive the HD650. You ABSOLUTELY need a good high end amp for those to be driven properly. Driving them from a lowend amp is just throwing money away. Cheaper headphones like AD900 and DT250 will sound far better compared to a poorly driven HD650.

 

[koto-in]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayk /img/forum/go_quote.gif All the gain switch does is make the volume louder for the headphones, so yes the HD650 will sound loud enough. HOWEVER the reason why it doesn't power them properly is due to the fact that they sound quite flat and wimpy, it's not the loudness, it's the fact the drivers aren't getting the amount of power required to excite them properly. Don't get the swing if you need to drive the HD650. You ABSOLUTELY need a good high end amp for those to be driven properly. Driving them from a lowend amp is just throwing money away. Cheaper headphones like AD900 and DT250 will sound far better compared to a poorly driven HD650.

I believe the issue is that the sound of the HD-650 is not to your taste. The Swing has more than enough power to drive the HD650. While it is true that the HD650 is a headphone that will scale up with a more refined amp, it is a question of resolution and quality, not quantity.

 

[MomijiTMO]

Rayk said "loud enough" which indicates the problem is with quality not quantity.

 

[userlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koto-in /img/forum/go_quote.gif I believe the issue is that the sound of the HD-650 is not to your taste. The Swing has more than enough power to drive the HD650. While it is true that the HD650 is a headphone that will scale up with a more refined amp, it is a question of resolution and quality, not quantity.

Does it? It lists 11volts, I'm not so sure that's really enough. It will obviously sound better than with no amp, but for $310 I think you could probably do better than the Swing for driving the higher impedance phones. To properly drive HD600/650, 600ohm loads, etc. I think you would probably have to go to the Cantate.2 at 13v at least. And at that point, you are getting into $500+ territory.

 

[progo]

The HD650 left a bit dull taste when I ran it with Arietta (trust me, I ran it for 12+ months) but it still does wonders if the source is up to it.

 

[koto-in]

Quote:

Originally Posted by userlander /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does it? It lists 11volts, I'm not so sure that's really enough. It will obviously sound better than with no amp, but for $310 I think you could probably do better than the Swing for driving the higher impedance phones. To properly drive HD600/650, 600ohm loads, etc. I think you would probably have to go to the Cantate.2 at 13v at least. And at that point, you are getting into $500+ territory.

The HD-650 can accept maximum nominal continuous input power of 500mW. Most other headphones accept only up to 200mW including the HD-600. The Swing can provide 403mW into a 300 ohm load, the Cantate, 563mW.

 

[rayk]

koto-in, if only tech specs always reflected the performance - but sadly they don't.

I have used quite a high end amp before with easy to drive phones (DT250), and let me tell you, you could really feel the improvement. Sadly I have not had a chance yet to test HD650s on a higher end amp (as I'm still waiting for stock of talisman amps, once that happens I will do a test), however to my ears the HD650s sound like they are underpowered - they are a tiny bit more detailed than the closed DT250 and sound just a little bit more open without the speed or snap that the DT250s have.

When a higher end open phone has nearly the same quality as a mid level closed phone it only tells me one thing - under driven.

 

[koto-in]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayk /img/forum/go_quote.gif koto-in, if only tech specs always reflected the performance - but sadly they don't. I have used quite a high end amp before with easy to drive phones (DT250), and let me tell you, you could really feel the improvement. Sadly I have not had a chance yet to test HD650s on a higher end amp (as I'm still waiting for stock of talisman amps, once that happens I will do a test), however to my ears the HD650s sound like they are underpowered - they are a tiny bit more detailed than the closed DT250 and sound just a little bit more open without the speed or snap that the DT250s have. When a higher end open phone has nearly the same quality as a mid level closed phone it only tells me one thing - under driven.

My point is only that the issue is not simply one of the quantity of raw power. Indeed "high end" does not necessarily mean "high power". To cite your example, the Talisman amps will only deliver 300mW to the HD-650's, less than the Swing. If your test were to suggest that the HD-650's sound better with the Talisman than with the Swing, then we could lay the issue of raw power to rest. That is not to say that the quantity of power does not remain an important factor (up to a point), but as you imply, real performance cannot be measured in watts.

 

[Cohiba]

I have got both the Corda Swing and the Little Dot MkV. I have just tried them both with my HD600 headphones. I would definitely recommend the MKV for anyone using Sennheiser HD600/HD650.

The Swing sounds too dark and underpowered with the HD600. As soon as I switced to the MkV the sound opened up and there was another level of instrument separation, deeper more punchy bass and a superior reproduction of vocals.

I would not go as far as saying the Swing is not capable of driving the HD600. The MkV is just so much better. However, I am looking forward to listening to my Grado 225is with the Swing.

 

[asmagus]

I have the Corda Swing and I can tell that this amp love low impedance headphones with quite good sensitivity.

Swing is able to give 300 mW per channel wit 24 Ohm headphones, sigal to noise ratio is around 140 dB, and freq. range is dc to 80 kHz, output impedance is below 1 Ohm so the dumping factor will be good even with low impedance headphones.

 

[Beefy]

The Swing must be one hell of an upgrade over the Arietta then. There is no way in hell the SNR was 140dB for that amp.

And for sensitive phones like my AD900, the minimum position on the volume knob was already too loud with a 2VRMS source. Completely unusable with IEMs.

 

[asmagus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Swing must be one hell of an upgrade over the Arietta then. There is no way in hell the SNR was 140dB for that amp. And for sensitive phones like my AD900, the minimum position on the volume knob was already too loud with a 2VRMS source. Completely unusable with IEMs.

I have never heard Arietta but I have other small amps, in this same price range (200-300 Euro), Swing is the best. Only Swing disadvantage is lack of micro details - compared to OTL amp with EHG 6922 and 2x Telsa GP E88CC.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Swing must be one hell of an upgrade over the Arietta then. There is no way in hell the SNR was 140dB for that amp.

Neither amp has a 140db S/N ratio, I assure you. I think they are great amps, but it's very unlikely they have a 140db S/N ratio. This would be a truly extraordinary feat in ANY amp. In fact, I believe that it's pretty much impossible in the real world, IIRC. Even the best 24 bit DACs which have a theoretical 144db S/N ratio can't achieve that performance without being cooled, and their S/N is almost always reduced from that limit by noise in the analog section. A true 120db S/N in an analog stage would be exceptional.