[Virgule]

Hello community,

I have a Focusrite 2i4 audio interface, which I'm using as a DAC and mic mixer. I have invested in a good pair or IEMs (Campfire Audio Atlas) and a balanced AMP (Aune X7S) to try out balanced signal output. I have also purchase a 2.5mm MMCX balanced cable for the CA Atlas.

In order to take advantage of my balanced amplification, I have purchased a 4pin male XLR to 2.5mm TRRS female adapter (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1pcs-10CM-M...606867?hash=item1a8252b053:g:K60AAOSw6QJdVqwo) to plug in my IEMS to the X7S.

I have not found a male 6.35mm TRRS male connector adapter or MMCX cable, so I'm relying on the XLR connection.

However, I just realized I'm currently using the non-balanced RCA out of my 2i4 to feed the RCA in of the X7s. I would therefore need to use the 2i4's 6.35mm balanced out, right ? The X7S only accepts RCA in. Do I need two 6.35mm male TRS to male RCA cables ?

Is my setup congruent ?

some pics to help :

 

[PaganDL]

Hi @Virgule,

Welcome to headfi, apologies to your wallet in advance.

First of all, before I get into what you actually need instead of potentially &/or likely chasing the wild goose, so to speak, let me try to help clear up some confusion.

The first question you have to ask yourself is what is your overall goal for the sound you are trying to achieve, do you really want a balanced audio signal or not & will it really make any difference to you?

Subjectively & personally, as well as from a technical standpoint, there is no obvious difference between a balanced or unbalanced signal, the noticeable generally being balanced signals offer a stronger audio signal & potentially lower noise floor.
There will be those who argue there is a difference but this tends to be mainly due to Perception & Expectation Bias.

As a side note, I will say using an audio interface does make things both easier but potentially more complicated if one is unfamilar.
I used to use the Lexicon Alpha as my primary sound output for many years so I sympathise with trying to find a mainstream solution to your needs.
I would advise looking at pro audio shops for help if there are good ones in your area, especially for relevant cables &/or adapters.
As the saying goes, try to keep things simple.

6.3 TRRS cables do exist though more often than not, these are usually called Stereo TRS or 6.3 to avoid too much confusion & for simplicity as sometimes in pro settings, depending on applications, generally either a single mono or stereo plug is needed.
As with what I said above, there is no real difference whether you use the RCA or Balanced TRS output to your Aune X7S which given the input on the head amp is RCA, it's not wired balanced internally.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it as the balanced output is simply there for convenience, nothing more.
Also, RCA Adapters exist for using RCA cables with TRS sockets, I suggest you look into those to make things even simpler for you.

Subjectively & personally, I don't think much of Campfire IEMs, while the Atlas is nice enough but that's just me, not sure I would call them good either but if you like consumer bass, sure, nothing wrong with that, just not my preference.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about the balanced 2.5 mm plug as from a technical standpoint, they are kind of useless especially if you still want to use 6.3, stereo (balanced) or not.
I say useless as electricity or the audio signal in this case, acts the same as water in having the largest surface area, you will get the most coverage or signal which is why I tend to prefer either 3.5 mm Balanced or 4.4 mm otherwise known as Pentaconn.

veclan.com & penon-official.com both have good affordable adapters as well as cables which you can use with your IEM, however you decide to connect it.

Hope all this makes sense, feel free to ask more.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[Virgule]

Thank you @PaganDL so much for the detailed response ! It's a lot of useful information and it also brings up a few questions.

1. You asked for my goal, what I'm trying to achieve.
I kind of geared up bit by bit and ended up with semi respectable equipment including a balanced amp. I was also considering a tube amp as I am a guitarist and have a particular affinity with the tube sound. I also have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 32 Ohm which wouldn't be balanceable.

I have to admit I'm under the impression that balanced > unbalanced in pretty much any scenario even if in some, the overall benefit might be small. I listen to music and play games on my computer. I've been noticing in some games the directionality of the sound is not that well defined. I wanted to use the balanced amp as it was intended and try and get a bit more sound definition that would benefit me in-game and also improve my music listening experience. On the go, I'm using a Fiio X5III and using my CA Atlas on a 2.5mm balanced cable. I enjoy the experience and thought I would try to bring that balanced experience to my home setup. If it only means buying 2 more TRS/RCA adapter cables and I'm all set, I would like to try it out. I understand the bias I might be under and I would like to explore the difference and not be 90% of the way to a balanced signal while having a pair of cables bottleneck me down.

2. Local expertise
Thanks for the advise, I'll try to bring my questions to some local audio shops.

3. 6.3 TRRS and RCA
So if I understand correctly, you're saying that there would be no difference in using the 6.3 balanced output on my 2i4 rather than the unbalanced RCA out because the X7S has RCA in, which is internally unbalanced ?
If so, what is the design logic of the X7S having balanced outs if it amplifies an unbalanced signal ?

4. Campfire Audio Atlas
On a side note, you don't seem to think the Atlas (and CA in general) are worth their asking price. Do you have any recommendations of IEMs that I should look into, without knowing my exact audio preferences I admit ?

5. 2.5mm balanced cable
You seem to imply that a 4.4mm or 3.5mm balanced cable is generally superior to a 2.5mm balanced cable, because of the surface area. I have an engineering background and can understand your analogy to flow. Does it really make a noticeable difference at normal listening levels ? When I looked for a XLR 4pin to 2.5mm balanced female adapter, I also looked for a 6.3 balanced MMCX cable, 4pin XLR MMCX cable, 3.5 or 4.4 balanced MMCX cable with 6.3 TRRS adapter and I didn't find any of those.

Again, thank you so much for your input.

 

[PaganDL]

Thank you @PaganDL so much for the detailed response ! It's a lot of useful information and it also brings up a few questions.

No problem, @Virgule.
Happy to help, I be surprised if you didn't have questions...

1. You asked for my goal, what I'm trying to achieve.
I kind of geared up bit by bit and ended up with semi respectable equipment including a balanced amp. I was also considering a tube amp as I am a guitarist and have a particular affinity with the tube sound. I also have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 32 Ohm which wouldn't be balanceable.

Well, with the Scarlett, you're definitely off to a good start.
I can't directly recommend you any guitar amps as I am no guitarist, my instrument background in more in percussion & wind instruments...
However, I can point you in the right direction for good guitar tube amps & suggest you look into Produce Like A Pro / Warren Huart's Youtube Channel as he is an amazing guitarist among other things & he often looks at good guitar amps.
As a side note, you could get a balanced cable for the DT990 but as I eluded to in my previous post with Balanced VS Unbalanced, that is more for convenience than anything else.

I have to admit I'm under the impression that balanced > unbalanced in pretty much any scenario even if in some, the overall benefit might be small. I listen to music and play games on my computer. I've been noticing in some games the directionality of the sound is not that well defined. I wanted to use the balanced amp as it was intended and try and get a bit more sound definition that would benefit me in-game and also improve my music listening experience. On the go, I'm using a Fiio X5III and using my CA Atlas on a 2.5mm balanced cable. I enjoy the experience and thought I would try to bring that balanced experience to my home setup. If it only means buying 2 more TRS/RCA adapter cables and I'm all set, I would like to try it out. I understand the bias I might be under and I would like to explore the difference and not be 90% of the way to a balanced signal while having a pair of cables bottleneck me down.

Honestly, as stated in my previous post, there really isn't any real difference sonically between Unbalanced or Balanced so for your usage, getting more overall directionalty in sound will depend more on how the sound files in games are produced rather than your amp itself.
As my tag surmises, well recorded is a factor.
Sadly, most in game sound, especially as far as anything environment related, eg footsteps, spatial cues, etc is rarely up to par to straight music or other media & more often than not comes down to how much time a developer devotes to that part of the project.
A good or perhaps exceptional example of overall engaging immersion through sound is Witcher 3 & expansions.

Unfortunately, I have never tried any of the Aune amps...yet so can't comment on how they sound overall though I have had my eye on the S7 Pro for some time though I am in no hurry to get it as not only do I have quite a few head amps by now, the exchange rate where I am makes the unit almost worse than the CAD but I digress...

By the way, when I mentioned RCA/TRS adapter, that is all they are, just a female RCA to TRS (Stereo) plug so the only cable part will be from your RCA, this shouldn't be more than $10, more likely less.

Honestly, there is no bias regarding balanced vs unbalanced, I use both extensively & since I have a monitor controllor, Drawmer MC 2.1, which manages the audio signal to two different speaker pairs with one output left for any balanced head amps I feel like using.
As far as sound quality goes, there will only be a bottleneck if said cables are high impedance, have poor conductivity or just overall crap so the important to note is as long as you are happy with the overall sound, especially from your headphones then there is nothing to worry about.

2. Local expertise
Thanks for the advise, I'll try to bring my questions to some local audio shops.

As said, see if you can find one or more good PRO AUDIO shops, not hifi, as it is more than unlikely they have the experience or knowlege to help you.

3. 6.3 TRRS and RCA
So if I understand correctly, you're saying that there would be no difference in using the 6.3 balanced output on my 2i4 rather than the unbalanced RCA out because the X7S has RCA in, which is internally unbalanced ?
If so, what is the design logic of the X7S having balanced outs if it amplifies an unbalanced signal ?

That is correct.
I mentioned this in my previous post.
More than likely, both outputs on your interface are probably wired together to the same internal amp chip in the Scarlett so I doubt the audio channels would be separated in any case unless it's stated in the manual & is more a cost saving measure than anything else.
As to why as far as design logic goes for the X7S having balanced outs on the front & not the back, I also mentioned in the previous post is more for convenience as many people tend to have balanced headphone cables for one reason or another.
From a design & technical standpoint, balanced input to unbalanced output makes more sense sonically.

4. Campfire Audio Atlas
On a side note, you don't seem to think the Atlas (and CA in general) are worth their asking price. Do you have any recommendations of IEMs that I should look into, without knowing my exact audio preferences I admit ?

Without causing any controversies which may already be implied, I'll just say CA head gear isn't to my preference though there are some which ain't bad just not sure I would personally own...
Basically, you answered your own question, it will depend on your audio preferences.
But for catering to unknown audio preferences, it's hard to go wrong with any of the iBasso IT Series.
There are potentially others, of course but IBasso is always a good place to start though if you're considering other IEMs out of curiosity or simple interest, X5III may not to be best choice as source as older Fiio gear with iBasso gear doesn't have the best synergy...

5. 2.5mm balanced cable
You seem to imply that a 4.4mm or 3.5mm balanced cable is generally superior to a 2.5mm balanced cable, because of the surface area. I have an engineering background and can understand your analogy to flow. Does it really make a noticeable difference at normal listening levels ? When I looked for a XLR 4pin to 2.5mm balanced female adapter, I also looked for a 6.3 balanced MMCX cable, 4pin XLR MMCX cable, 3.5 or 4.4 balanced MMCX cable with 6.3 TRRS adapter and I didn't find any of those.

Actually, I didn't imply either was superior in all but from a physics POV.
But it's not just the electrical or audio signal I am alluding to but the overall build quality in the plugs as I have see a lot more failures (not personally) in 2.5 than any other head gear balanced plug.
As said, sonic differences will depend more on perception & subjective bias than real world listening.
As stated, 6.3 doesn't technically exist for IEMs & is more used as an interconnect.
Otherwise, veclan.com will have any affordable custom built head gear connector to balanced plug you could want except for the aforementioned 6.3.
Also penon-official.com has adapters for all relevant plugs except 6.3

Hope this all makes sense.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[Thenewguy007]

So if I understand correctly, you're saying that there would be no difference in using the 6.3 balanced output on my 2i4 rather than the unbalanced RCA out because the X7S has RCA in, which is internally unbalanced ?
If so, what is the design logic of the X7S having balanced outs if it amplifies an unbalanced signal ?

It's for convenience. People who have XLR only equipment might want to use their cables for it. I don't think the Focusrite 2i4 is fully differential to take advantage of a fully balanced signal.

Campfire Audio Atlas
On a side note, you don't seem to think the Atlas (and CA in general) are worth their asking price. Do you have any recommendations of IEMs that I should look into, without knowing my exact audio preferences I admit ?

I had the Atlas & I liked it better than the Andromeda. Felt it was more resolving & had better bass. The Atlas was way way better than any of my under $100 Chinese IEMS that I heard & better than a few $300+ IEM I've had from Sony & Hifiman.
Then again outside the Andromeda, I never got to test out $1k IEMS to compare.

 

[Virgule]

Thanks to both of you!