[Saraguie]

Here's where to gripe about companies.

 

[Mimouille]

I think it is not so much about gripe but healthy questioning about certain things in this industry we increasingly take for granted.

 

[wink]

I was waiting for Spareribs to start this thread - Oooops, guess he missed..............

 

[JuanseAmador]

I hate the marketing language used by some, "high definition audio" as if it was a tv. I don't know, sometimes you see these phrases which shouldn't go with cans.

 

[audionewbi]

I think the problem is that we have no set handbook for companies to follow. Once we have some basics on do and don'ts maybe we can see a less crazy market. I do not have a problem with product pricing but I do have a problem on how they expect us to change our way of listening according to the product we buy. For instance going from 2.5mm to to ibasso to xlr all requires the termination of our headphone/IEM into different formation. Why can't the product makers make up their mind already and stick with just one?

I guess the only part that we cannot really regulate is how product is tuned as we all have different preference but I believe with time I think we can figure out that too. Or even better have switchable devices which offer variety of sounds from one wide freq. transducer.  

 

[H20Fidelity]

Well, I mentioned it in the AK380 thread I think these companies are testing the consumers wallets, pushing pricing until just before breaking point, because they know they will pay. It's all very well calling these products a luxury item. Sadly, there's going to be consumers who push the limits of thier bank loans, scrapping up cash anyway they can to have the ultimate. (sure) not the companies fault would be the natural defence as each person has a choice.

I couldn't really give a rats about it until you bring in the equation of pushing the standard pricing of DAP in the market overall. Once other companies peak over the fence they want thier piece of pie, up thier prices go and you have a new standard. Cowon followed with Plenue, Sony with ZX2.

 

[Duncan]

I suppose that the market is only driven by what people are prepared to pay, spinning it to luxury / exotic cars, how many are sold, and of those, how many are used to their full potential versus having them for boasting rights?

Very much the 'mine is bigger than yours' factor for the consumer...

 

[Music Alchemist]

Every headphone company ever brags about how accurate their headphones are...yet very few are close to accurate.

 

[Duncan]

Music Alchemist never was a truer sentence spoken, much to our financial detriment!

 

[billybob_jcv]

I think there is a fool born every minute. Why anyone believes anything that comes out of the Marketing department of a company is beyond me. Their entire job is to convince you to buy their product instead of some other product, and/or to convince you to buy something you did not know you needed. In a sane and rational world, the concept of "Marketing" would not be needed. The engineering department would simply publish the specs they used to design the product, and the results of the tests they ran after the product was built. It would then be up to us to figure out whether we want to buy the product.

But, humans are lazy, irrational & emotional creatures. We want decisions to be made for us. We *want* to be led by the nose and we like products that appeal to our emotions in an irrational way. Then, we're surprised and indignant when someone has told us exactly what we want to hear, but we then find the product doesn't actually meet our requirements or expectations.

 

[Music Alchemist]

I think there is a fool born every minute. Why anyone believes anything that comes out of the Marketing department of a company is beyond me. Their entire job is to convince you to buy their product instead of some other product, and/or to convince you to buy something you did not know you needed. In a sane and rational world, the concept of "Marketing" would not be needed. The engineering department would simply publish the specs they used to design the product, and the results of the tests they ran after the product was built. It would then be up to us to figure out whether we want to buy the product.

But, humans are lazy, irrational & emotional creatures. We want decisions to be made for us. We *want* to be led by the nose and we like products that appeal to our emotions in an irrational way. Then, we're surprised and indignant when someone has told us exactly what we want to hear, but we then find the product doesn't actually meet our requirements or expectations.

 
I'll be the first to agree with you that marketing can be highly unethical. However, as someone with professional marketing experience, who relies on marketing for survival (as well as luxury), I wouldn't go so far as to say that the world would be better off without marketing. If you really think about it, nearly everything we have is brought to us via marketing. (But I'm using marketing in its broadest sense here.)

 

[billybob_jcv]

A company with an ethical Marketing department is usually the sign of EITHER: 1) A company with a unique product that the consumers actually do need and want; 2) A company that has failed.

Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door. Build a bigger Marketing department and you can sell the same old cr@ppy mousetraps for twice the money...

 

[Music Alchemist]

A company with an ethical Marketing department is usually the sign of EITHER: 1) A company with a unique product that the consumers actually do need and want; 2) A company that has failed.

Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door. Build a bigger Marketing department and you can sell the same old cr@ppy mousetraps for twice the money...

 
True, but I'm saying that everything in your life is brought to you by marketing in one form or another. You can't shrug it off entirely when it is an integral part of our lives.

 

[Mimouille]

I think debating the whole philosophy of free market capitalism is not really the point here, if any. Of course brands will try to entice you to buy their products.

The issue is that brands such as JH and AK have decided to trigger an escalation in pricing, which is NOT the standard in consumer electronics or the Luxury industry. Neither LV nor Apple put out a new product that is twice as expensive every year.
Besides, these luxury prices do not reflect product quality or quality control, as the many first hand issues I and several others have had with these brands reflect.
The technical benefit in these upgrades is not always obvious. I like the AK240 but it is by no means groundbreaking soundwise and warranting the price. For JH, the sound of the Siren is impressive, but the fit and quality are half baked, this is clearly a beta product.
Finally, the customer service is not consistent with the pricing.
I am not saying the brands are completely bad or do nothing well, as I have owned all AK players, and own the Roxannes, and like them. Just that these brands, and others, should have more respect for the willing cash cows we are if they want to keep milking us.

 

[LouisArmstrong]

I respect companies like Audeze and Hifiman which produce good products over the years and have developed from startup workshops to successful businesses as they are now. On the other hand I am appalled by Astell & Kern which is basically just iRiver disguised with an European name and keeps pushing out new products every two months with tiny improvements (yet charging $1K more every time). 
 
AK380 is a complete joke. Standalone, it is barely better than AK240 and still cannot surpass Hugo in terms of SQ (but at a price much higher than AK240 or the Hugo). If you pair it up with the amp module, it basically becomes a desktop amp, or "transportable" amp. At the price of the AK380 plus the amp module, you can basically buy a decent desktop DAC in the 3K range, plus a very good desktop amp - from brands which actually have a reputation in making headphone amps - not iRiver. I respect people who make good headphones and headphone amps and actually put their research efforts into it much more than people who just put together different readily available DAC chips and wrap them with nicer and nicer aluminum bodies and sell them for ridiculous prices.   
 
I am an AK240 owner but will probably never buy any of their products again.