Companies that take advantage of audio enthusiasts
Jul 8, 2015 at 4:37 AM Post #31 of 181

vnmslsrbms

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A good pair of speakers beats the AK380 any time.  Sure I can't lug them around, but I can get some pretty good floor standers for that price.  The DAP situation is just out of control.
 
Jul 8, 2015 at 4:45 AM Post #32 of 181

Jeff Y

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  A good pair of speakers beats the AK380 any time.  Sure I can't lug them around, but I can get some pretty good floor standers for that price.  The DAP situation is just out of control.

Yea they're overpriced but they're not supposed to compete with speakers. For $3.5K I would go for a Tekton or a Golden Ear speaker :)
 
Jul 8, 2015 at 5:21 AM Post #33 of 181

Jeff Y

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A point I want to bring up is: Isn't a company that makes simply bad stuff and builds up hype a company that really take advantage of audio enthusiasts, not a company that makes good stuff then sells it expensive. I mean, my main point is coming from a Stereophile article I read. It was basically talking about how speaker prices are going up exponentially. A decade ago or more, speakers costing more than $200,000 were almost nonexistant. But now, we see $200,000 ones all the time at shows and it's not all too hard to find speakers costing more than $300,000-400,000.
 
If this trend of DAP prices keep going like speakers have over years, I wonder what A&K's version of the ultimate player of the month year will be like 10 years later. AKXXXX with a price tag of over $10,000? Laugh all you want because I'm sure people would have done the same thing if they were told 5 years ago that AK240 will come out in the future with a price tag of $2500. Let us hope that we won't see price tags like that for the good of all of us.
 
To conclude, price tags will go up, we will get used to it, some people will get rich, and money will keep coming out of our wallets/bank accounts/piggy banks/etc. So companies that make good stuff and sell them at a high price is not taking advantage of audio enthusiasts, it's simply what they do. Companies that really take advantage of audio enthusiasts are companies that make bad stuff and sell things at a high price only due to the hype.
 
The end.
 
Jul 8, 2015 at 5:35 AM Post #34 of 181

Mimouille

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Unfortunately AK will continue to sell. Despite price. Not because their products sound great. Not because customer service is good. Not because their product quality is awesome or their products are innovative. Just because they understood the audiophiles' minds and they are great at creating ENVY. We just yearn for their products. Also because this hobby is also about competition, and the most expensive must be the best.
 
Jul 8, 2015 at 5:43 AM Post #35 of 181

vnmslsrbms

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Sure thing.  The market will decide on that.  If you're putting A&K in the same boat as the 200,000 speakers then I'd seriously be worried about their future.  But they do have cheaper players of course like the Jr.  BTW the 200,000 speakers actually sound a hell of a lot better than the 10,000 ones.  Can you say the same about the AKs?
 
Jul 8, 2015 at 5:44 AM Post #36 of 181

Jeff Y

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  Unfortunately AK will continue to sell. Despite price. Not because their products sound great. Not because customer service is good. Not because their product quality is awesome or their products are innovative. Just because they understood the audiophiles' minds and they are great at creating ENVY. We just yearn for their products. Also because this hobby is also about competition, and the most expensive must be the best.

I believe that envy is in us. We just have to buy what we need according to the budget we have and the set up chain we are looking for. Maybe it's just me :p
Many times the best is very expensive but the best right now, the Yggy, is not the most expensive. This is a reason why I like Schiit! 
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Jul 8, 2015 at 5:50 AM Post #37 of 181

Jeff Y

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  Sure thing.  The market will decide on that.  If you're putting A&K in the same boat as the 200,000 speakers then I'd seriously be worried about their future.  But they do have cheaper players of course like the Jr.  BTW the 200,000 speakers actually sound a hell of a lot better than the 10,000 ones.  Can you say the same about the AKs?

Often times more expensive speakers sound better than cheaper ones but companies Golden Ears or even Magnapan are trying to do something about bringing down the prices.
 
But then there are times when the prices don't matter like me preferring cheaper Wilson Audio rather than many more expensive PMCs, Dynaudios, and more. But then I like the most expensive Wilson Audio speaker the best haha 
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Jul 8, 2015 at 12:32 PM Post #38 of 181

Music Alchemist

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  A point I want to bring up is: Isn't a company that makes simply bad stuff and builds up hype a company that really take advantage of audio enthusiasts, not a company that makes good stuff then sells it expensive. I mean, my main point is coming from a Stereophile article I read. It was basically talking about how speaker prices are going up exponentially. A decade ago or more, speakers costing more than $200,000 were almost nonexistant. But now, we see $200,000 ones all the time at shows and it's not all too hard to find speakers costing more than $300,000-400,000.
 
If this trend of DAP prices keep going like speakers have over years, I wonder what A&K's version of the ultimate player of the month year will be like 10 years later. AKXXXX with a price tag of over $10,000? Laugh all you want because I'm sure people would have done the same thing if they were told 5 years ago that AK240 will come out in the future with a price tag of $2500. Let us hope that we won't see price tags like that for the good of all of us.
 
To conclude, price tags will go up, we will get used to it, some people will get rich, and money will keep coming out of our wallets/bank accounts/piggy banks/etc. So companies that make good stuff and sell them at a high price is not taking advantage of audio enthusiasts, it's simply what they do. Companies that really take advantage of audio enthusiasts are companies that make bad stuff and sell things at a high price only due to the hype.
 
The end.

 
It really depends. If you create a product for $100 and sell it for $10,000, that is taking advantage of your customers. This is just an extreme example, but the concept still applies to many existing products in our sphere. We all know that most high-end audio products sell for far higher than the production cost. (With a few exceptions.) Of course, they need to make a profit, but they also don't need to make so much profit. Ultimately, this comes down to the subjective perception of value for each individual. These DAPs are luxury products targeted to those who can easily afford them, so that consumer base will have a more lenient perspective on things. Those who would never dream of spending so much on a DAP will naturally tend to see the pricing as unfair. My personal view is that they are very sexy players and something I might want to get in a few years for portable use, but only after I start traveling more and have taken care of my serious home system.
 
Jul 10, 2015 at 12:14 AM Post #39 of 181

LouisArmstrong

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It is hilarious to see people here trying to talk about diminishing returns and stuff like "people will continue to buy despite price" blah blah blah, when all they are talking about is the petty AK380. $3500 can't even buy a cable on my speaker system. Talk when you have experienced truly high end gear and be astonished by their prices. I own a lot of products which are considered "snake oil" that people stuck in their own IEM world can't even start to imagine - a US$20,000 player, $4K signal cables, $2K USB cable, just to name a few. But even I won't fall for the AK380. Simply put, I can't think of another product at that price range on Planet Earth which is more worthless. It is just that bad. 
 
Want to talk about "money no object"? AK380 is just a joke compared with the Esoteric K-01. Two AK DAC chips? How about eight, per channel.  I tried using the AK240, the AK380 and the Esoteric player as source for my new HE1000 headphone system. AK380 is just a complete joke.
 
Got $3,500 to spare? Buy HE1000 - that is what I would call night and day difference with whatever IEM/headphone you are using (unless you already have the SR009). Get an Omega or second hand Rolex. Go to a fancy resort in the orientals. Get a small speaker system. All in all - do something more worthwhile than getting an IRIVER at that price. If you are so rich that you don't even care about the money that you spend, donate it on the orphans. But don't buy them the AK380. Coz they won't thank you.
 
Jul 10, 2015 at 10:50 AM Post #40 of 181

Music Alchemist

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  It is hilarious to see people here trying to talk about diminishing returns and stuff like "people will continue to buy despite price" blah blah blah, when all they are talking about is the petty AK380. $3500 can't even buy a cable on my speaker system. Talk when you have experienced truly high end gear and be astonished by their prices. I own a lot of products which are considered "snake oil" that people stuck in their own IEM world can't even start to imagine - a US$20,000 player, $4K signal cables, $2K USB cable, just to name a few. But even I won't fall for the AK380. Simply put, I can't think of another product at that price range on Planet Earth which is more worthless. It is just that bad. 
 
Want to talk about "money no object"? AK380 is just a joke compared with the Esoteric K-01. Two AK DAC chips? How about eight, per channel.  I tried using the AK240, the AK380 and the Esoteric player as source for my new HE1000 headphone system. AK380 is just a complete joke.
 
Got $3,500 to spare? Buy HE1000 - that is what I would call night and day difference with whatever IEM/headphone you are using (unless you already have the SR009). Get an Omega or second hand Rolex. Go to a fancy resort in the orientals. Get a small speaker system. All in all - do something more worthwhile than getting an IRIVER at that price. If you are so rich that you don't even care about the money that you spend, donate it on the orphans. But don't buy them the AK380. Coz they won't thank you.

 
Glad to hear that you found a system that makes you happy. The HE1000 is a great headphone, but nowhere good enough for me, mainly due to its warm and subdued sound signature. Seems that only electrostats have the level of realism I was looking for. I like even my low-end STAX more than all the high-end non-electrostats. As for audio equipment costing four to six figures, that's a fairly broad topic, with many products that are considered as snake oil by some and priceless treasures by others. I actually plan on getting ultra-high-end DACs, cables, etc. eventually, but also plan on doing all the tests I can on them, to determine how much of a genuine difference they make. Anyway, the context of the DAP value discussion is about DAPs compared to other DAPs, not compared to speakers and sources that cost five figures or more. As far as I know, the AK380 is the most expensive DAP so far, but still a luxury portable product in the end. Not really meant to replace a serious home system.
 
Jul 10, 2015 at 11:20 AM Post #41 of 181

Rico613

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  It is hilarious to see people here trying to talk about diminishing returns and stuff like "people will continue to buy despite price" blah blah blah, when all they are talking about is the petty AK380. $3500 can't even buy a cable on my speaker system. Talk when you have experienced truly high end gear and be astonished by their prices. I own a lot of products which are considered "snake oil" that people stuck in their own IEM world can't even start to imagine - a US$20,000 player, $4K signal cables, $2K USB cable, just to name a few. But even I won't fall for the AK380. Simply put, I can't think of another product at that price range on Planet Earth which is more worthless. It is just that bad. 
 
Want to talk about "money no object"? AK380 is just a joke compared with the Esoteric K-01. Two AK DAC chips? How about eight, per channel.  I tried using the AK240, the AK380 and the Esoteric player as source for my new HE1000 headphone system. AK380 is just a complete joke.
 
Got $3,500 to spare? Buy HE1000 - that is what I would call night and day difference with whatever IEM/headphone you are using (unless you already have the SR009). Get an Omega or second hand Rolex. Go to a fancy resort in the orientals. Get a small speaker system. All in all - do something more worthwhile than getting an IRIVER at that price. If you are so rich that you don't even care about the money that you spend, donate it on the orphans. But don't buy them the AK380. Coz they won't thank you.


Sadly, I can't take my 2 rack 10 component home system to the gym . .  so I settle for A&K DAP's that I can shove in my pocket.  Helps assuage the utter boredom of working-out !!  
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Jul 10, 2015 at 9:02 PM Post #42 of 181

xkonfuzed

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I feel like all audio equipment is overpriced to some extent, and that companies take advantage of audio enthusiast because they know that $300+ is nothing to them. Why is it that some headphone amps or DACs are considered cheap, when their prices are well above $500. I'm not very knowledgeable in their components and their pricing, but I feel like DAC/Amps in general should cost way less than they are now. 
 
Maybe to some people, that amount is relatively cheap. But to others, myself included, its a rather big amount amount. Which brings me on to my second point, I feel like the audio market is aimed at the elderly gentlemen. Unfortunately for us students, we have to work our asses off to get that $300. On the contrary, older people have nothing else to spend it on, and as a result, $300 really isn't much to them. 
 
Excuse my ranting, but its hard to be a student and own the audio equipment you want at the same time. 
 
Jul 10, 2015 at 9:15 PM Post #43 of 181

Music Alchemist

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  I feel like all audio equipment is overpriced to some extent, and that companies take advantage of audio enthusiast because they know that $300+ is nothing to them. Why is it that some headphone amps or DACs are considered cheap, when their prices are well above $500. I'm not very knowledgeable in their components and their pricing, but I feel like DAC/Amps in general should cost way less than they are now. 
 
Maybe to some people, that amount is relatively cheap. But to others, myself included, its a rather big amount amount. Which brings me on to my second point, I feel like the audio market is aimed at the elderly gentlemen. Unfortunately for us students, we have to work our asses off to get that $300. On the contrary, older people have nothing else to spend it on, and as a result, $300 really isn't much to them. 
 
Excuse my ranting, but its hard to be a student and own the audio equipment you want at the same time. 

 
It's all about findin' them deals!
wink.gif

 
I got an entry-level STAX system in exchange for some of my CDs. And like I mentioned above, I actually like it more than headphones I have heard that cost thousands of dollars. Although in my case, I want to upgrade to the TOTL STAX system which costs thousands, it's not necessary to spend a whole lot to get excellent sound quality. You just need to strategize.
 
Jul 10, 2015 at 9:19 PM Post #44 of 181

Rico613

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Quote:
  I feel like all audio equipment is overpriced  . . . I feel like the audio market is aimed at the elderly gentlemen. Unfortunately for us students, we have to work our asses off to get that $300. On the contrary, older people have nothing else to spend it on, and as a result, $300 really isn't much to them. 
 

^ cheer up -- you will get older and likely be a wealthy gentleman one day!
 
Jul 10, 2015 at 9:41 PM Post #45 of 181

xkonfuzed

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It's all about findin' them deals!
wink.gif

 
I got an entry-level STAX system in exchange for some of my CDs. And like I mentioned above, I actually like it more than headphones I have heard that cost thousands of dollars. Although in my case, I want to upgrade to the TOTL STAX system which costs thousands, it's not necessary to spend a whole lot to get excellent sound quality. You just need to strategize.

Nice! I've always wanted to hear what an electrostat sounds like. 
 
I'm always on the lookout for some good deals. That said, I don't visit the Deals thread as much as I used to. My fear is that I'll buy something I have no use whatsoever for, just because it was on sale 
biggrin.gif

 
  Quote:
  I feel like all audio equipment is overpriced  . . . I feel like the audio market is aimed at the elderly gentlemen. Unfortunately for us students, we have to work our asses off to get that $300. On the contrary, older people have nothing else to spend it on, and as a result, $300 really isn't much to them. 
 

^ cheer up -- you will get older and likely be a wealthy gentleman one day!

Thanks, I have hope that I will, someday. 
beerchug.gif
 
 

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