Colour and Technicals... Antithesis to Ray Samuels?

[bangraman]

What's the manufacturer the most opposite of Ray? His amps to my ear combine colour and technical capability for a pleasing response while retaining technical excellence. Who's the flip side of the relaxed sound of the RS amps, someone who would pursue technical perfection above all else, "colour my ass". Would it be (by national stereotype) Meier-Audio?

 

[ppl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman What's the manufacturer the most opposite of Ray? His amps to my ear combine colour and technical capability for a pleasing response while retaining technical excellence. Who's the flip side of the relaxed sound of the RS amps, someone who would pursue technical perfection above all else, "colour my ass". Would it be (by national stereotype) Meier-Audio?

Are you some how employed by Ray or related to his firm in any way? Otherwise your statement is strange. why would you pit one manufature against another in this small market.

 

[gsferrari]

To put it simply you want to know which amp manufacturer strives for pure technical sound (Reference Audio) ?? Why drag Ray, Meier etc. into the mess?

I'd say HEADROOM amps (in my experience) are the most "reference" I have heard. Cold + analytical when it matters and warm + friendly when it matters (when it matters = depending on the recording).

Meier's prehead is a nice warm full sounding amp.

Its hard to classify each manufacturer under a category. I think this is a bad idea because it could lead to friction.

Cheers!

 

[bangraman]

Pit one manufacturer against another? Drag into the mess? Has this board suddenly come over all PC? Was the question that badly worded? I'm looking for a contrast to Ray's amps so that I can compare a new type of amp (not Ray's) against both for the purposes of helping development of it. I'm not some idiot fanboy. Having listened to a very wide variety of amps under non-meet controlled circumstances (more than some of you DIY guys, I'd wager), I called Ray's amps as I heard them.


I'm quite surprised by ppl's guarded response. The last time I checked, we were a capitalist society

If I wanted to, we are allowed to compare the product of manufacturers however small they may be against each other, aren't we? I'd much rather have a small maker around who accepts constructive criticism and strives to improve their product than get huffed off after being told by someone with more than half an ear that their amp doesn't compare well with the competition.

 

[gsferrari]

True - but let me explain better.

Ray Samuels
Mikhail
Jan Meier
Tyll Hertsens
etc.

They are frequently at meets, they interact with the members here, they interact amongst themselves at meets.

Do you want to chance creating a hostile atmosphere which could potentially ruin the meets or even stop them from participating at all because the other guy will be there?

Considering that the Headphone Amp business is a small one (WE are the customers) why not keep it happy and friendly. Competition is always there and they are constaly trying to make a better product. They dont need you and I to tell them who is doing what better.

Relations between Kevin Gilmore and the manufacturers is already strained. Larry who has his own style of making amps also took some stick because of negative publicity. We need to make things better - not worse

Not required IMHAHO.

Dont be mad at me Bangra - this is all IMHAHO

 

[oneeyedhobbit]

Sheesh, I'm with Bangraman. Hes just looking for an amp with a contrast in sounds, labeling it the opposite. For example, say I'm listening to a "stereotypical" tube amp--you know the ones, with the very tubey, rich, full, syrupy sound. The opposite of this would be something completely dry, accurate, and analytical.

Seeing as Ray falls inbetween these two spectrums, finding an opposite might be difficult, but jeez, hes not saying one amp is better than Ray or that Ray and Jan should obviously kick each other's asses, etc. Just complementary sounds.

 

[myself, aka me]

To me the question means "What amp manufacturers have a sound signiture opposite to that of Ray Samuels?".

So answer it if you know, and leave amp-politics out.

Seems you gotta explain every word you use...

 

[tiberian]

Quote:

Would it be (by national stereotype) Meier-Audio?

maybe, never tried other amps but from my experience their house sounds are quite different. my xp-7 had that ray samuels sound - noticable smoothness, warmth and rolled off frequency extremes - and my prehead is like a refined and full bodied benchmark amp out.

 

[kyrie]

This is my stereotype for the "signature" sounds of the various manufacturers:

Headroom: "Reference sound"
Meier Audio: "Technical excellence"
Ray Samuels: "Natural but quality"
Gilmore: "Neutral and transparent"
Singlepower: "Musical satisfaction"

Of course, I may be wrong on all accounts.
I personally think that the antithesis to Ray Samuels might be Gilmore amps, but I don't have enough experience to say that for sure.

 

[tyrion]

I don't see this as being any different then asking what tell me what amp you like, why you like and can you compare it to one of Ray's amps. I didn't see anything negative in bangraman's post. I hope that these manufactures aren't that sensitive. They are never going to get everyone to like all their products. I don't think anyone on this board doesn't want them to be successful and we certainly want them to participate in meets but not at the sacrifice of honest debate about the different products.

 

[bangraman]

[references post by gsferrari pointing at some sort of being a good citizen approach]


Do I care how the manufacturers get on with each other? No, absolutely not. If they can't keep their egos in check when discussing their products versus others, that's not for us to tread lightly over. Individuals might have different opinions about how things are done. If it spills into almost-name-calling, it's not my fault and I'll give the finger to people who tell me otherwise. In fact I would vote with my wallet and take business elsewhere.


If K. Gilmore has a strained relationship with other manufacturers, that's very clearly (as witnessed on these forums) his problem. If Larocco has negative publicity due to their inability to meet customer demands, that's their problem for misjudging business... this is irrelevant of whether you are semi-DIY or otherwise. We don't have to cover it up in some way.


I now return you to the point of my thread. Thanks for the ON-TOPIC replies so far. I'm reading them.

 

[dhwilkin]

Yeah, there's nothing inherently negative in his question. All he's really asking is for opinions of what line of amps has the most neutral and/or analytical sound, depending on your definition of those two terms.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman What's the manufacturer the most opposite of Ray? His amps to my ear combine colour and technical capability for a pleasing response while retaining technical excellence. Who's the flip side of the relaxed sound of the RS amps, someone who would pursue technical perfection above all else, "colour my ass". Would it be (by national stereotype) Meier-Audio?

I'm not sure that there is one answer to this, as Ray's amps do not necessarily all have a similar signature. The HR-2 can sound drastically different from itself if you put a different op amp into it. Using the AD797 that's standard in the HR-2, IMO the SR-71 had a much more forward and dynamic sound when I heard it in NY. So, I'd be hard put to find an "opposite" to a moving baseline, at least in terms of sonics. Headamp.com's Gilmore amps have a different signature than Ray's, at least in the standard configurations. The Gilmore v2 is more forward and aggressive, relative to the HR-2's smooth and relaxed. Think of Ray as "Sennheiser" while Headamp is "Grado". Even so, when I've compared the HR-2 and Gilmore V2 I've found the differences to be subtle. These amps are very much in the same class, with small changes in sonics. There are many more similarities than differences.

I haven't heard Ray's Stealth amp enough to comment on sonic opposites to it.

 

[gsferrari]

Well...I must admit I had the wrong idea when I responded initially. The trouble is I am always planning meets in my head and there are times when I cringe thinking of what would happen if some of these guys ended up in the same room and had a brawl

I understood the question and tried to answer it as succintly as possible when I said that Headroom builds the most "Reference" sounding amps I have heard and should be the anti-amp of the Ray Samuel stable.

I like coloured sounding amps...I like equalizers...I like to listen more to the music and less to the sound. Sometimes I can and sometimes I fail and focus on the sound instead

Bangra - my apologies. I am sorry you feel I was attacking you and trying to be a "good citizen" but I had my reasons and I hope you understand. I know Ray, Mikhail and the others on a personal level and like them all...which is why I am careful not to pit them against each other (not just them but anyone - DIY and otherwise).

Cheers!

 

[quke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrie Headroom: "Reference sound" Meier Audio: "Technical excellence"

Could you describe me how does technical excellence sound like and how it differs from reference sound? Just curious.