Collecting Classical: Boxed Sets opinions?
Jul 26, 2003 at 1:07 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 24

chillysalsa

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Ok, I've heard a number of people saying to stay away from them.

What have other people's experiences been? Are they a good idea if you're really into a particular composer?

I've ventured out and ordered the EMI set of Sibelius. I have a recording of DG by the Helsinki of No. 3, and really liked it. I guess I'll find out if I made a mistake...
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 1:55 AM Post #2 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by chillysalsa
Ok, I've heard a number of people saying to stay away from them.


What, exactly, has been said?

I have a number of classical boxed sets, and for the most part I've been satisfied with them.
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 2:21 AM Post #3 of 24
Boxed sets are great in saving money if you've made up your mind to build up a good classical collection. But if you just want to "test the water", then budget single or 2CD sets are the way to go.

As usual, safer bets lie in the major and established record labels, but you really have to check the performers' credentials.

EMI has more than one series of classical boxed sets -- there is a "regular" series featuring big-name performers: you can't go very wrong with this series. There is also an ultra-budget series by new/lesser known performers. The prices are attractive (say 5 CDs for the price of a little more than one) but I haven't looked at these.
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 2:46 AM Post #4 of 24
I have Beethoven's 9 symphonies from Arte Nove Classics (David Zinman) and it is very well performed and recorded. 5 cd's for only $27, including shipping.
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 2:54 AM Post #5 of 24
Jul 26, 2003 at 2:57 AM Post #6 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by MusicLover
I have Beethoven's 9 symphonies from Arte Nove Classics (David Zinman) and it is very well performed and recorded. 5 cd's for only $27, including shipping.


The only Arte Nova set I have is thr 5CD set of Mozart piano sonatas by Michael Endres. The playing is very assured and meticulous but a little bit on the "safe" side. I don't like, however, that there is NO booklets or sleeve notes.
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 3:28 AM Post #7 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador
Try these sets of music:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...015966-0968610

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...015966-0968610

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...015966-0968610


I will report in once mine arrive soon, but I have NOT heard them. I read when someone posted about one or two of these, so I went and ordered them. They all got great reviews on Amazon.


That Mozart one looks good. I'm very interested. I hope it's as good as the reviewers say.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 4:12 AM Post #8 of 24
I tend to like dissonant music, so do keep that i[n] mind.

If you can find them, pick up the LaSalle Quartet's box sets of the Second Viennese School and late Quartets by Beethoven (all on DGG). The bad: tinny abrasive digital transfers of analog masters. The good: superbly intelligent performances and recordings, with eighty-page booklets that will teach you a great [deal] about the pieces being played. There's even sheet music to read.

The Hans Werner Henze box set of 14 CDs (in which most pieces are conducted by the composer) is no longer available; if you find a copy, pick it up, if only to sell to *me*.

Other sets of note: The Harmonia Mundi 6-CD Box Set of Purcell can sometimes be bought from a remainder outlet for the ludicrous price of $20-25[]. The Frederick Chu set of Prokofiev's Complete Sonatas is also wor[th] having, as are Rene Jacobs's versions of Monteverdi. I bought most of my HM at Tower's Sales Annex for roughly $4.00 a disc.

The very best box set I've heard in the past two years is Pierre Boulez's version of the complete works of Anton Webern on DGG. It is an improvement on the ancient Robert Craft performances in every possible way. The set also comes in slimcases, which means the six CDs take up very little space. And I've seen it on sale more than once.

The Nonesuch box set of John Adams is spotty (due to certain bad compositions) but otherwise good (particularly the Violin Concerto). And do keep in mind that half the fun of box sets is finding them reduced to nothing in drastic sales.

Time to meet friends at a bar. It's Friday after midnight.
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 5:58 AM Post #9 of 24
I've had good luck with boxed sets so far. I'm usually somewhat familiar with the particular performances before I'll buy a box. I have the Fitzwilliam Shosti set linked above and the Zinman Beethoven set. Both are great. The one box I have that I don't really like is the Emmerson Quartet's cycle of Shostakovich string quartets. Besides not really caring for the performance it was pricey at around 90 bucks.

The Zinman Beethoven set is not only a great value at around $25 but the performances sound good and are very interesting. Kind of a re-interpretation of some of the symphonies.

MJ
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 12:50 PM Post #11 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador
Try these sets of music:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...015966-0968610

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...015966-0968610

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...015966-0968610


I will report in once mine arrive soon, but I have NOT heard them. I read when someone posted about one or two of these, so I went and ordered them. They all got great reviews on Amazon.


I have the Shostakovich quartets (the first one you list), and it's an excellent set. You won't be disappointed.
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 12:51 PM Post #12 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by MusicJunkie
I've had good luck with boxed sets so far. I'm usually somewhat familiar with the particular performances before I'll buy a box. I have the Fitzwilliam Shosti set linked above and the Zinman Beethoven set. Both are great. The one box I have that I don't really like is the Emmerson Quartet's cycle of Shostakovich string quartets. Besides not really caring for the performance it was pricey at around 90 bucks.

The Zinman Beethoven set is not only a great value at around $25 but the performances sound good and are very interesting. Kind of a re-interpretation of some of the symphonies.

MJ


I agree about the Emerson. I didn't like their Beethoven set, either.
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 12:53 PM Post #13 of 24
Quote:

Originally posted by scrypt

The very best box set I've heard in the past two years is Pierre Boulez's version of the complete works of Anton Webern on DGG. It is an improvement on the ancient Robert Craft performances in every possible way. The set also comes in slimcases, which means the six CDs take up very little space. And I've seen it on sale more than once.



That's funny, but I like the Craft set much better. It's never been released on CD, IIRC.
 
Jul 26, 2003 at 10:09 PM Post #15 of 24
God cvnt it all, I'd just written a thorough comparison of Boulez's and Craft's versions of Webern and offered analytical minutiae. Just as I was applying the final finishing touch, my browser quit. Here's a partial paraphrase:

Quote:

Originally posted by FCJ
That's funny, but I like the Craft set much better. It's never been released on CD, IIRC.


I hadn't said that Craft's versions were released as a box set *on CD*, only that I preferred Boulez's versions to Craft's. (Because I have a degree in music composition, I had to listen to Craft's versions of Webern extensively in college, and have always devoted special attention to Webern generally -- I'm well aware that Craft's Webern is a vinyl outing.)

I do give Robert Craft his props for having made pioneering recordings of Webern, and for having championed Webern's cause -- particularly in America and particularly to other musicians, such as Stravinsky, whose later works show Webern's influence largely because of the efforts of Craft (which *Conversations with Stravinsky*, a book of interviews with which you're doubtless familiar, clearly shows). And I don't intend to disparage Craft in any way.

But as to Boulez's versions of Webern, their superiority over Craft's is generally acknowledged. Here's why, I think:

(a) Boulez was, and to some degree still is, an ultra-rationalist composer. His magic-square-matrixed technique of total integration (i.e., the serial integration of all aspects of music -- timbre, rhythm, dynamics, etc., as opposed to merely serializing pitch-classes, as in Schoenberg) were derived wholly from Webern. This means that, compositionally, Boulez is in a better position than Craft to understand the strata of Webern's delicate and complex palindromic structures, as well as the ultimate implications of said structures.
(b) Webern demands exactitude; Boulez is a more surgically exacting conductor than Craft when he wants to be; and since Webern is Boulez's favorite composer, Boulez wants to be.
(c) Craft's versions, through no fault of his, were seriously marred by the unavailability of reliable scores, which meant in some cases that Craft had to use bad Xeroxes of questionable sources.
(d) Boulez is a trained mathematician and Webern's use of math is legendary (Webern cited the horizontal-and-vertical palindrome, Sator-Arepo-Tenet-Opera-Rotas as a compositional ideal, paving the way for Boulez (along with Stockhausen, Babbit, et al.) to use magic squares).
(e) The first movement of Webern's Symphony Op. 21, with its deceptively transparent-sounding orchestration, is also a double crab canon as strict as any by Bach. Yet the nuances of that polyphony can be hard to hear, initially, because of Webern's use of klangfarbenmelodie (literally, tone color melody): each phrase of each of its four voices is passed from one instrument to the next. This is a technique that derives from medieval music or, more precisely, from a device called the *hocket* (literally, *hiccup* -- which is what the technique sounds like in medieval vocal music). Most listeners could probably hear the measured structure of the first movement of the Op. 21 -- that parts repeat, for example, or that the first part of the movement is a twenty-four-bar double period. But it is harder to hear the coherence of the contrapuntal lines, particularly for the untrained listener. Boulez does everything possible to bring out the individual lines in a way that Craft does not. One need only compare their versions of Op. 21 to hear the difference.
(f) Boulez used engineers who were also classically trained musicians. He also insisted on using singers with perfect *intonation*, which is necessary in Webern because his music is difficult to sing but is also transparent and exacting in a way that much twentieth century music is not. As good as they were, Craft's singers often sound muddy by comparison.
(g) There is a purity of color in Boulez's versions that could not have been achieved in Craft's because elements of the orchestra couldn't be miked and isolated as they can now. Ordinarily, this is a subject of controversy among audiophiles, and if you were to insist on a puristic approach to the stereo field (two mikes without any close-miking of instruments whatsoever), I would respect your preference. But in the case of Webern, I do think the music benefits from a close-miked approach.
(h) The Boulez version is more complete because we now have access to certain earlier compositions and because it is more inclusive.
(i) Boulez has studied Webern's music his whole life and is now an old man. He has the advantage of decades of familarity with Webern while, to Craft, Webern was comparatively new.
 

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