OspreyAndy
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13 June Update: Just one entry. And it is yet another 5 stars performer! Hidizs S9 Pro. Details on Page 1
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Thanks for the hard work Andy. I might just spring for this one.13 June Update: Just one entry. And it is yet another 5 stars performer! Hidizs S9 Pro. Details on Page 1
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great work thanks..
U2nite
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Wow this is an interesting topic. Especially since we are getting more hi res lossless sources. The latest is by Apple Music since 7 June 2021.
Thanks OspreyAndy for all the tests and detailed posts of your subjective results. This is great fun.
And will continue to read your impressions of the newer dacs as well as the impressions of others on these and other days
Earlier today I saw Mazer USB C to 3.5 mm doc at the Challenger store in Singapore Tampanis and bought it. S$44.90. Enjoying it now with Apple Music.
Thanks OspreyAndy for all the tests and detailed posts of your subjective results. This is great fun.
And will continue to read your impressions of the newer dacs as well as the impressions of others on these and other days
Earlier today I saw Mazer USB C to 3.5 mm doc at the Challenger store in Singapore Tampanis and bought it. S$44.90. Enjoying it now with Apple Music.
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So is it the 2nd best among all the 5 Stars?13 June Update: Just one entry. And it is yet another 5 stars performer! Hidizs S9 Pro. Details on Page 1
OspreyAndy
500+ Head-Fier
On my personal scale yes. However always remember that anything I rate 5 stars are all already stellar. I can give the lot of them to someone else and I can guarantee you the order may be different than mine because the factor of synergy and preferred sound signature comes into play. That is why I called this "Subjective Impressions", there is no solid way to measure taste - and shouldn't be
jao29
100+ Head-Fier
Any recommendations for a dac/amp dongle for an ios device? Im using the dd hifi tc35i as of now. I don’t want to use the apple cck for a dac/amp dongle. As much as possible I’d like a dongle that would go straight to my idevice.
Many thanks!
Many thanks!
h1a8
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For a baseline, maybe you should include apple usb c to 3.5mm dongle and apple lightning to 3.5mm dongle (for ios devices).
Im curious where they stand in comparison. Josh Valor says they are phenomenal for the price.
Ill donate you something to help out with getting them (if you don't already have them).
Im curious where they stand in comparison. Josh Valor says they are phenomenal for the price.
Ill donate you something to help out with getting them (if you don't already have them).
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OspreyAndy
500+ Head-Fier
It's already in my list of incoming dongles on page 1. Over 20 units I expect to arrive within the next 2 weeks
OspreyAndy
500+ Head-Fier
Any of the dongles I marked as Female USB-C on their body will work with Lightning ports. HiBy FC3, Hilidac Audirect BEAM 2SE, Questyle M12, Hidizs S9, S9 Pro, Lotoo PAW S1, Xynocn X1 all will work with iPhones natively with Lightning to USB-C Cables. Some of them included on purchaseAny recommendations for a dac/amp dongle for an ios device? Im using the dd hifi tc35i as of now. I don’t want to use the apple cck for a dac/amp dongle. As much as possible I’d like a dongle that would go straight to my idevice.
Many thanks!
jao29
100+ Head-Fier
I actually had the apple dongle last year. And it broke on me for like 2 weeks. Lol That’s the reason I switched to the tc35i since it’s the sturdier of the two. Thanks though!
jao29
100+ Head-Fier
Oh! Thanks! Will check them out. Do you have any suggestions which is the most durable of the lot?
Thanks for the test you did!
Time to order a few! Hah
Time to order a few! Hah
OspreyAndy
500+ Head-Fier
Hilidac Audirect BEAM 2SE. Comes with lightning cable out of the box. And built like a tank
Star Mastering
100+ Head-Fier
My background:
An audio enthusiast with 6 years of useless experience reading subjective words of others, a former Sony fanboy who got into audio in 2007 after getting my grandfather’s extensive classical CD collection and subsequently in 2013 due to the ‘incredible’ quality of SHARP’s 1 Bit radio cassette CD/MD players and Sony’s MD Walkman. Of course – compared to laptop speakers – any source is better!
I also became interested in the engineering and science aspect of sound due to the work of Mr Ayataka Nishio, ‘father of DSD audio’, an engineer at Sony who created SBM for CDs, 1 bit audio, Sonoma editing systems, SBM Direct, VAIO DSD audio hardware and software design advice and assistance, activities popularising DSD Audio in Japan, and finally the original 2013 ver of DSEE HX. The he made it possible to livestream DSD256 via PrimeSeat software. He is actually about as legendary as Doi the ‘creator of CD’ or the S-Master amp designer whose name I forgot (after retirement he created the Vinyl Processor DSP for walkmans). Not many legendary engineers of the 90s remain at Sony now, although their teachings and influence probably remains. One of the many influences is seen in the way that Sony places emphasis on subjective enjoyment and does not reveal specs as a marketing tool. As a consequence, only their top of the line products measure well enough, and the standard products have suffered bad designs … in most cases.
My foray into audio extends only to the limits of DSD audio and DSEE HX. Although I gradually learned some technical terminology, it was not structured or systematic learning. I have forgotten much of it. I still don’t truly understand 1 bit audio. Each layperson’s understanding of it seems different, and to understand it from an engineer’s perspective one needs to read AES papers etc.
My comments based on my background
First of all, I take my hat off to you for testing so many audio DAC adapter dongles subjectively. Nobody else could possibly have as many dongles by their side to try out at one time. Only a few weeks ago one photo of several expensive dongle DACs prompted me to take photos of mine but I never imagined that ‘40 at once’ could happen!
Secondly, I wish to ask for any proof you could show us of your ability as a trained listener. If our brain’s ability to remember the sound is only 2-3 seconds, and volume matching is difficult, and each time we move our headphones the sound is slightly altered, and a dozen other factors come into play, how is it that the general ranking here is anything more than a futile exercise? I think it must be made clear to us that these general differences are repeatable, and occur regardless of the abovementioned factors which can influence the sound.
Thirdly, is there a real merit in using actual real-life loads and subjective testing over null tests or ABX tests? Clearly, it would be more time efficient, given that measuring a device for all its measurable qualities will take too much time when done for 40 of them, and those measurements may not cover amp differences and so on. Furthermore, average consumers find it easier to understand than technical terminology, which is partial and can produce a wrong impression.
It clearly takes immense effort to do what you’ve done. I only have 10 dongles but no desire to compare them at all!
The distinction between products in terms of specs, features and design does not appear to be emphasised much. A full concentration on the sound alone is quite unusual – ‘CD quality only’. Clearly it must be emphasised that the other factors (specs, features and design) will not weigh in and create any bias.
What actually matters for dongles? Output power, impedance, noise, distortion inherent to the DAC – serious basic flaws one can hear or infer from what we hear immediately. Meanwhile, minor SINAD differences are useless beyond a certain point, because distortion/THD of most headphones is worse than 0.1%.
So for subjective testing, headphones are pretty suitable. Unlike speakers, for which more detail will be necessary for us to gauge the efficacy of the testing. And enjoyment is subjective anyway.
What matters? There are way too many dongles in the market now, so subjective comparison is the only way to categorise them efficiently and help consumers make decisions. There is no way to measure all of the new products, and indeed, such highly accurate measurements are reducing in number now.
An audio enthusiast with 6 years of useless experience reading subjective words of others, a former Sony fanboy who got into audio in 2007 after getting my grandfather’s extensive classical CD collection and subsequently in 2013 due to the ‘incredible’ quality of SHARP’s 1 Bit radio cassette CD/MD players and Sony’s MD Walkman. Of course – compared to laptop speakers – any source is better!
I also became interested in the engineering and science aspect of sound due to the work of Mr Ayataka Nishio, ‘father of DSD audio’, an engineer at Sony who created SBM for CDs, 1 bit audio, Sonoma editing systems, SBM Direct, VAIO DSD audio hardware and software design advice and assistance, activities popularising DSD Audio in Japan, and finally the original 2013 ver of DSEE HX. The he made it possible to livestream DSD256 via PrimeSeat software. He is actually about as legendary as Doi the ‘creator of CD’ or the S-Master amp designer whose name I forgot (after retirement he created the Vinyl Processor DSP for walkmans). Not many legendary engineers of the 90s remain at Sony now, although their teachings and influence probably remains. One of the many influences is seen in the way that Sony places emphasis on subjective enjoyment and does not reveal specs as a marketing tool. As a consequence, only their top of the line products measure well enough, and the standard products have suffered bad designs … in most cases.
My foray into audio extends only to the limits of DSD audio and DSEE HX. Although I gradually learned some technical terminology, it was not structured or systematic learning. I have forgotten much of it. I still don’t truly understand 1 bit audio. Each layperson’s understanding of it seems different, and to understand it from an engineer’s perspective one needs to read AES papers etc.
My comments based on my background
First of all, I take my hat off to you for testing so many audio DAC adapter dongles subjectively. Nobody else could possibly have as many dongles by their side to try out at one time. Only a few weeks ago one photo of several expensive dongle DACs prompted me to take photos of mine but I never imagined that ‘40 at once’ could happen!
Secondly, I wish to ask for any proof you could show us of your ability as a trained listener. If our brain’s ability to remember the sound is only 2-3 seconds, and volume matching is difficult, and each time we move our headphones the sound is slightly altered, and a dozen other factors come into play, how is it that the general ranking here is anything more than a futile exercise? I think it must be made clear to us that these general differences are repeatable, and occur regardless of the abovementioned factors which can influence the sound.
Thirdly, is there a real merit in using actual real-life loads and subjective testing over null tests or ABX tests? Clearly, it would be more time efficient, given that measuring a device for all its measurable qualities will take too much time when done for 40 of them, and those measurements may not cover amp differences and so on. Furthermore, average consumers find it easier to understand than technical terminology, which is partial and can produce a wrong impression.
It clearly takes immense effort to do what you’ve done. I only have 10 dongles but no desire to compare them at all!
The distinction between products in terms of specs, features and design does not appear to be emphasised much. A full concentration on the sound alone is quite unusual – ‘CD quality only’. Clearly it must be emphasised that the other factors (specs, features and design) will not weigh in and create any bias.
What actually matters for dongles? Output power, impedance, noise, distortion inherent to the DAC – serious basic flaws one can hear or infer from what we hear immediately. Meanwhile, minor SINAD differences are useless beyond a certain point, because distortion/THD of most headphones is worse than 0.1%.
So for subjective testing, headphones are pretty suitable. Unlike speakers, for which more detail will be necessary for us to gauge the efficacy of the testing. And enjoyment is subjective anyway.
What matters? There are way too many dongles in the market now, so subjective comparison is the only way to categorise them efficiently and help consumers make decisions. There is no way to measure all of the new products, and indeed, such highly accurate measurements are reducing in number now.
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