[Duotronic]

First, before you read this, keep in mind that I've been going at this for a week now and it has made me pretty angry. I'm very technical and have gotten big into audio just a few months ago. I thought it would've been a great idea to get a tube amp since I've heard nothing but good things from them. I swapped my tubes to the rca jan 6as7g and the tung sol 6sn7gtb from stock. If I need to get access to something just tell me what it is that I need to test with if it seems worth it to me I'm willing to test with it. I'm currently in college for computer engineering and have a background in cybersecurity and networking, I build and troubleshoot computers as a side job. All of my cables are less than 6 feet, I did all of my testing isolated from my powered-on monitors, cables weren't everywhere when I tested it. I'm 99% sure that my amps are working correctly

Hi owner of the infamous HD58X/DT770 80ohm, DV336se tube rolled, Magni 3 Heresy, Focusrite 2i4 gen 1 and around 50. Currently my DT770 is not at my house

I ran into an issue with the Modi 3+ after upgrading from my Focusrite 2i4 where after purchasing and using a Sescom A/B switch I discovered that there simply put was no difference that I currently can't comprehend with this setup

After discovering that the Modi 3+ didn't meet my expectations when purchasing it I used the same sescom switch to test the difference between amps on the Input line from my microphone(Shure SM58). being that the Microphone is already an analog device I suspected it to be at the purest level of detail that I can currently drive. I plugged in my darkvoice and Magni directly from the unbalanced monos using a y splitter plugged both amps into the sescom A/B tester and turned the Direct Monitoring to input. When talking into the microphone there was a complete night and day difference between amps. But if I recorded said audio I just spoke with it would sound muddy and different on either the Focusrite's USB interface or the Modi 3+ directly to the amp

Here's the path I ran after discovering that my Modi 3+ couldn't drive my dv336se. I did this to confirm to myself that the Focusrite did indeed not color the audio such that the audio would be easier to pick out

PC -> DAC ->RCA to XLR -> Focusrite -> y splitter -> both amps-> into sescom a/b switch -> headphone

I've also ran the tests with and without a y splitter, unplugged the devices, and ran the chains separately. I've swapped to 4 other computers and ran the troubleshooting tips off schiits website

After much testing, I concluded that the Focusrite didn't color the Microphone input as it was used directly as an analog signal. The Modi 3+ sounded identical with the Focusrite in the loop or without it

I'm aware that XLR uses 4 volts, but I believe that shouldn't affect performance since 2 Volt in 2 Volts out when using 2 XLR to rca cables

I haven't returned the Modi 3+ yet (still got a few more days before I have to ship it), I've ordered a Modius and I'm hoping that fixes my issue (but it's back-ordered until May 5th for me). I'm aware that it shouldn't be eq levels of difference, I believe that is pretty obvious.

The performance that I expected was that vocals would be more warm, open, and it would indeed color the sound to sound slightly distorted in a pleasing way. From what I think is happening is that either I just got unlucky with my Modi 3+ or am I just expecting more out of my tube amp. But what really is driving me mad is that my Focusrite 2i4 using a mic sounds like I'm talking in a hallway, even with someone else talking into it same results. But when I record the vocals and then do playback on the modi 3+ the hallway effect completely removed (Audacity). I feel like my conclusion is completely right but I'm still stumped that all of Reddit just took a dump on my posts

But in the meantime

What techniques have you used to test the difference between tube and solid-state amps

And I've also tested my tube and solid state on the rca cables from my gamecube just to test it on there, my 4k samsung QLED tv's optical output, my labtop, a different desktop, and my phone. I've also tested it with it grounded down to the same outlet as the pc, DV336se without ground same outlet but pc has ground, and 2 different breakers with and without ground. That and I did for a period of time tried messing with eq just to see if mids got louder when bass matched volume
With all of that testing should've a normal person heard at least some sort of difference or was I going about it the wrong way

 

[Duotronic]

I had the same issue with the modi 3+ as I did with my Focusrite when taking audio from my pc or any other computer. But the xlr inputs from my Focusrite gave me a substantial difference between solid-state and tube amps

Just to clarify

 

[Duotronic]

And one last question

Would a bad dac or simply put an audio device that lacks the ability to push out audio when amplified cause an amount of audio distortion to cause a tube and a solid-state to sound identical? if no then let me know why or how

 

[buke9]

Not for sure what your asking . I don’t test audio devices I just listen to them. For your question not much needs to be said that my Amps and Sound Kenzie is a tube amp and my Audio GD is a solid state amp so don’t know what you want to know. Don’t need measurements they are what they are,

 

[Duotronic]

Not for sure what your asking . I don’t test audio devices I just listen to them. For your question not much needs to be said that my Amps and Sound Kenzie is a tube amp and my Audio GD is a solid state amp so don’t know what you want to know. Don’t need measurements they are what they are,

I'm assuming since you already have a Yggdrasil which is more than adequate. Would you mind testing your tube and solid-state off of the modi 3 and a bad dac or like a crappy phone. I think that's just what my problem was, no measurements are required. Since from what I read a tube and a solid-state should be pretty noticeable in change if you wouldn't mind saving me the time of waiting until my new dac arrives that would be great

 

[Duotronic]

This is just to prove my conclusion which was that my dac just colored the audio in such a way or distorted it bad enough that it made telling the difference very difficult

 

[megabigeye]

Hi there,
I'm a little unclear what you're asking / what the problem is? Are you just wondering why you're not hearing more difference between your amps and DACs?
My guess is that there's simply not nearly as much difference as you've been led to believe. Not to say that there's no difference, but that it's been oversold and overstated. There's a lot of hyperbole about audiophilia, which can make things pretty (read: completely) confusing.

Or maybe I'll misunderstanding your post. Can you clarify a little? Maybe outline it like this:

• Setup A (list devices, etc)
• Intended use
• Expected results
• Actual results

• Setup B
• Intended use
• Expected results
• Actual results

• Etc.

If you're serious about testing, you might also ask in the Sound Science section. There are people there that would be willing to help you set up a good and thorough test, if that's what you want.

 

[Duotronic]

Hi there,
I'm a little unclear what you're asking / what the problem is? Are you just wondering why you're not hearing more difference between your amps and DACs?
My guess is that there's simply not nearly as much difference as you've been led to believe. Not to say that there's no difference, but that it's been oversold and overstated. There's a lot of hyperbole about audiophilia, which can make things pretty (read: completely) confusing.

Or maybe I'll misunderstanding your post. Can you clarify a little? Maybe outline it like this:

• Setup A (list devices, etc)
• Intended use
• Expected results
• Actual results

• Setup B
• Intended use
• Expected results
• Actual results

• Etc.

If you're serious about testing, you might also ask in the Sound Science section. There are people there that would be willing to help you set up a good and thorough test, if that's what you want.

I'll go there if this thread goes nowhere. I'm more or less looking for some sort of an answer, I do think that this post was unclear I'll admit that but I do like the format you wrote down. When I get my new dac which should solve my problem, I'll make some sort of post looking for a more scientific explanation when I get it in the mail

 

[tomb]

Not for sure what your asking . I don’t test audio devices I just listen to them. For your question not much needs to be said that my Amps and Sound Kenzie is a tube amp and my Audio GD is a solid state amp so don’t know what you want to know. Don’t need measurements they are what they are,

^ this ...

As you can see from the replies, and please take this constructively, you need to work a bit on your English/grammar presentation in addition to your engineering science. Maybe construct an outline of what you want to say prior to posting again.

I do not believe anyone got a clear understanding of what you may want, except from the title, "...distinguishing a tube amp from a solid state amp." If that is truly the goal, you'll be going down a rabbit hole quickly. An amp is an amp. It either performs well with its constituent parts or not, regardless of what they are. A tube amp can be built to "sound" just as good as a solid-state amp and a solid-state amp can also be built to sound like a tube amp. If that sounds contradictory, it's because many have the impression that tube amps are bassy and warm, whereas solid-state amps can be harsh and shrill. Both are simply symptoms of cheap design and construction with those technologies. Designed and built properly, both types of amps can perform at world-class levels.

 

[VeightTripleDivision]

If it is a fully vacuum tube amp, usually it sounds different than SS. If it is a hybrid (tube voltage gain, yet SS ouput stage), it might be harder to tell apart from solid state amp. Myself built a hybrid and knows what to hear.

 

[Duotronic]

To all who commented on this thread, thanks for all your help. I've at least for the most part am going to wait until I get my new dac maybe even a db tester. Besides that, your advice won't go unnoted

 

[buke9]

To all who commented on this thread, thanks for all your help. I've at least for the most part am going to wait until I get my new dac maybe even a db tester. Besides that, your advice won't go unnoted

Still unsure what you want to test? To me it sounds good or it doesn’t no need for a measurement . If you want a dB tester to gauge how loud your listening then more power to you.

 

[Duotronic]

Still unsure what you want to test? To me it sounds good or it doesn’t no need for a measurement . If you want a dB tester to gauge how loud your listening then more power to you.

I did the db tester, turns out my issue was that the DV336se just sounds like a solid-state (like my heresy). I got it within .5 db I did hear a very very small difference in soundstage. This thread that I found perfectly explains the issue. also apparently my focusrite's active input monitoring is distorted big time which causes the differences between solid state and tube to be amplified or something like that

EDIT::I was simply worried that I had a dac that either distorted or colored my audio. I can live knowing that there was no need to buy a tube amp, but I know it can drive 300+ ohm headphones great. And it's a flex now I guess/pleasing to look at

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/i-cant-hear-the-difference-with-tubes-am-i-doing-it-wrong.951669/