[Spyro]

There have been many threads with jazz legends but how about the new generation? Anybody here into Christian McBride? The guy is building quite the resume and is clearly one of today's greats. There is something about him in that he is so comfortable playing classic straight ahead swing or bop yet he is fearless (and quite good) at stepping out into the free jazz world as evidenced by his latest "Live At Tonic" release.

He will begin another trio tour soon with all-world drummer Antonio Sanchez and Pat Metheny. Definitley worth seeing if it is coming to a town near you.

 

[Bruhman]

YES! I think Christian McBride is a freak of nature. I've followed his career since he was a teenager in Freddie Hubbard's band. You're right - he's freakishly good at absorbing the main elements of every different style of music. As if he hasn't done enough already, it said on his website that he'll be musical director for Queen Latifah this summer. Honestly, I don't dig him with Pat Metheny's trio so much. I get the sense that Metheny puts the handcuffs on him. When he plays with other people, he seems to soar high. With Metheny, he sounds like a mere mortal! LOL! However, McBride is without question the MAN. He should be a much, much bigger star than he is.

 

[mark6.190059]

Yeah guys. I heard him with Pat Metheny just over 1.5 years ago, and I also think that he isn't getting enough of a chance to spread his wings. Heck...he didn't even come on stage until Pat had played 4 or 5 solo pieces. I'd really like to see Christian as a part of a stronger team like EST or something. However, some of the best current musicians, like Chris Potter, seem to be happiest as sidemen at the time being.

 

[Bruhman]

Christian's own band is KILLER! It's unlike any other band he plays in. That's probably why so many people can't get used to it. It's like Ray Brown meets Jaco meets Coltrane meets The Meters meets Emerson, Lake and Palmer!! It's unmistakably a jazz group, but it's got all this other **** that's pretty special. I hope his band blows up big one day. "Live at Tonic" represents what I'm talking about pretty well, I think.

 

[Spyro]

"Live at Tonic" Most people either love it or hate it. With 3 cd's there is a lot of music on there for just about everybody's taste. CD 1 is pretty staightforward but 2 and 3 are complete...and I mean COMPLETE improv. The 32 minute E Jam that opens CD 3 is astonishing. That jack-hammer of a rhythm with McBride and Terreon Gully is quite the workout which carries all of the solos through. I think the guy will go down a legend.

Yea, Chris Potter mention above. I have been spinning his "Gratitude' cd all week. What a terrific sax cd and Brian Blade is such a terrific drummer.

 

[Aman]

I was at the "Live at Tonic" show that was recorded and subsequently released. I think McBride is a wonderful, imaginative player, and I really hope that he has more opportunities to show his technical prowess (perhaps as his own band leader, instead of being under the cheesy pseudo-jive smooth jazz command of Pat Metheny).

The man is a wizard... a genius! His solos are frighteningly good, as he possesses fingers quicker than any other bassist that I've ever had the pleasure of seeing live. He's also a really nice guy!

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif (perhaps as his own band leader, instead of being under the cheesy pseudo-jive smooth jazz command of Pat Metheny).

Huh? (Guess we got a jazz purist in the house) Not to hijack my own thread but that is just flat out ignorant. Metheny reinvented the traditional "jazz guitar" sound for a new generation of players and has continued to re-define the genre by utilizing new technology and constantly working to evolve the improvisational and sonic potential of his instrument. Give "The Way Up" a solid listen and you will realize this doesn't quite fit in with Dave Koz, Steve Oliver, Paul Taylor, Mark Antoine type of music in any way shape or form. Not even remotely close.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Huh? (Guess we got a jazz purist in the house) Not to hijack my own thread but that is just flat out ignorant. Metheny reinvented the traditional "jazz guitar" sound for a new generation of players and has continued to re-define the genre by utilizing new technology and constantly working to evolve the improvisational and sonic potential of his instrument. Give "The Way Up" a solid listen and you will realize this doesn't quite fit in with Dave Koz, Steve Oliver, Paul Taylor, Mark Antoine type of music in any way shape or form. Not even remotely close.

Jazz purist?

Look at my signature. I'm an adamant fan of the furthest-out jazz imaginable... Zorn, Braxton, Brotzmann, Ayler, etc... I hate the jazz purist crowd (the Wynton types).

Flat-out ignorant? It's my opinion, isn't it? I don't like the man's tone. I don't like how smooth he sounded in the seventies, and he's not any better today. I saw McBride with Metheny back in '05 and thought to myself, "Wow, if only he were leading that band." He and Sanchez both are phenomenal players; Metheny is technically gifted, but he's far too produced and far too concerned with his accessibility. Every once in a while he plays his cards right and does something unique (like Song X with Ornette Coleman), but he's more than hit-or-miss for me. In fact, I'd say that the man is completely misusing his talents.

Metheny was certainly not the man to single-handedly reinvent the jazz guitar sound. I hear a lot more of that in John Abercrombie, John Scofield, and John McLaughlin, in fact. (Wow, three Johns...)

 

[Bruhman]

Christian's band is playing at the Bach Dynamite Dancing Society in Half Moon Bay in early August. I can't imagine how that small place will hold all that power. I'll be there to find out!

 

[Coltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman /img/forum/go_quote.gif (perhaps as his own band leader, instead of being under the cheesy pseudo-jive smooth jazz command of Pat Metheny).

While I could see how many could be upset by that statement, it is hardly an uncommon one among many jazz circles. I don't think Aman was trying to say Pat is as bad as Dave Koz, Boney James, or Spyro Gyra (

), just that Metheny tends to create a smoother landscape that simply doesnt work for some people. I greatly enjoy some Metheny records and I am borderline repulsed by some others. Personally, I think a listen to 'The Way Up' simply proves his point more than negating it. To each his own.

I think all my Christian McBride listening has been with him as a side man. Maybe I'll check out Live at Tonic.

 

[Spyro]

Aman....I guess I am not understanding what you find smooth or produced about Pat. Yet you'll give McBride a pass playing hip hop with Scratch and DJ Logic? I'm guessing if that was Pat you'd crucify him. Scofield's "sound" is dreadful he nor Abercrombie have much musicality IMHO. If you want to call throwing in a little melody a sign of being "produced and accessible", so be it.
I guess the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is his peers. Metheny has left no stone unturned in the heavy hitters he has been asked to play with. Aman, actually I'd say the opposite....that a guy like Kurt Rosenwinkle (who I'm sure you have seen because he does the small club NY circuit) has great technical skills but little musicality. Jeff Ballard carrys him IMO.

Coltrane: What "jazz circles" are you talking about? Those that can't accept the guitar as a jazz instrument? What is weak about The Way Up? ..how about "Proof" from Speaking of Now?,.....and the Mehldau recordings? etc, etc. I am not being snide, I am curious. You don't think it's among the most cutting edge yet accesible jazz being played today? Is Jean Luc Ponty a hack as well?

Now if you guys want to rip on me ... rip on me for saying that I thing Spyro Gyra's latest "Good To Go Go" is the jazz record of the year thus far. New Drummer Bonnie Bonaparte is hot sh** as has taken the band to another level.. PLEASE give the record a listen before dissing them. Scott Ambush can play bass as well as anybody.

I won't carry this on because it is pointless to argue with those that dislike Metheny but the music world could use many more like him. Lyle Mays too.

 

[Coltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Coltrane: What "jazz circles" are you talking about? Those that can't accept the guitar as a jazz instrument?

Oh please, it has nothing to do with accepting the guitar as a jazz instrument or any other projected biases that you seem to think one must have to dislike Metheny. You can read a bit more on general opinions here:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/ind...l=metheny&st=0

Again, mostly positive stuff, atleast about Pat's jazzy work, but a fair amount of uncertainty for his PMG stuff.



Quote:

What is weak about The Way Up? ..how about "Proof" from Speaking of Now?

You mean besides the cheesy pseudo-jazz jive of the whole record?

Quote:

and the Mehldau recordings? etc, etc. I am not being snide, I am curious. You don't think it's among the most cutting edge yet accesible jazz being played today? Is Jean Luc Ponty a hack as well?

I enjoy the Mehldau recordings quite a bit, although the duet stuffs seems a bit lacking. Not sure what 'cutting edge yet accessible' means, not sure why accessible is ever even an attribute worth mentioning in a serious discussion of music. And no, I am not a Jean Luc Ponty fan.

Quote:

I won't carry this on because it is pointless to argue with those that dislike Metheny but the music world could use many more like him. Lyle Mays too.

The music world could use many more like many people. My music world is quite content with the number of Pat Metheny's currently in existence. If you dig him, thats great. I can certainly see why you do. Doesn't mean he has to float everyone else's boat as well. I'm clearly looking for something different in the jazz I listen to, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Spyro]

"cutting edge yet accesible" : To me means while the music may have many layers, changing time sigs, improv...there is also an element about it (usually in the form of melody) that many people can grab onto fairly quickly. Not sure how anyone could associate that with cheezy or smooth if that's the case. It doesn't always have to be abstract. But even still, most people out there still don't understand Pat's music, or anyone else we've mentioned above for that matter. We are the minority. Peace.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Aman....I guess I am not understanding what you find smooth or produced about Pat. Yet you'll give McBride a pass playing hip hop with Scratch and DJ Logic? I'm guessing if that was Pat you'd crucify him. Scofield's "sound" is dreadful he nor Abercrombie have much musicality IMHO. If you want to call throwing in a little melody a sign of being "produced and accessible", so be it. I guess the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is his peers. Metheny has left no stone unturned in the heavy hitters he has been asked to play with. Aman, actually I'd say the opposite....that a guy like Kurt Rosenwinkle (who I'm sure you have seen because he does the small club NY circuit) has great technical skills but little musicality. Jeff Ballard carrys him IMO.

What's wrong with hip-hop? I think McBride's work with DJ Logic is great! I think it's you who's the "jazz purist." Why shouldn't a jazz double bassist play with Logic? If Metheny did anything with DJ Logic, I'd at least be interested, since he seems to turn out almost respectable work when paired with one more adventurous than himself.

Rosenwinkle I can't comment much on as I've never seen him perform before. But I do know that I much rather favor Bill Frisell, Fred Frith, Marc Ribot, and Jonathan Kreisberg (whom, by the way, are pioneers of the modern jazz guitar).

Scofield was a necessary bridge between jazz and rock. The discussion of "musicality" is moot and unnecessary; making "pleasant" music is not his goal. Nor is it Abercrombie's, in fact. Listen to the Gateway series of recordings! It's adventurous and experimental, presenting new and unique ways for electronics to be implemented as a form of structure and texture (instead of, say, cheesy theme-less melody like somebody else in question).

Quote:

But even still, most people out there still don't understand Pat's music, or anyone else we've mentioned above for that matter. We are the minority. Peace.

You're... the minority?

Tell that to the fans of Otomo Yoshihide and Fred Frith...

Seriously, Metheny can sell out ultra-large concert halls doing solo performances, whereas Fred Frith can only sell out a small music club if he's paired with more popular master improvisers like John Zorn. Give me a break, man! You have no idea, it would seem...

 

[Spyro]

I suppose everything is relative but yes, I would say I am in a minority as far as a music listener considering virtually none of what I listen to can be found on FM radio...the same FM radio which is the catalyst that propels well over 90% of music purchases.

No need to get testy. I could care less if you don't like Metheny or don't care for his sound. That's one thing. But to say he puts out cheesy smooth jazz is ignorant.