Chord Mojo(1) DAC-amp ☆★►FAQ in 3rd post!◄★☆
Dec 11, 2015 at 6:33 PM Post #6,721 of 42,765
Could that be the difference made special for Mojo? I think/guess it's about power (consumption of supply & output of power), in addition to low noise/distortion. 


I believe it's the resolution and the very accurate timing and transients from Rob's WTA filters and FPGA taps that technically provide an order of magnitude better sonic reproduction of the original performance over off the shelf solutions like Sabre, Cirrus, Wolfson, etc., and the fact that there is VERY little after that in the signal path to add distortion that gives the Mojo its magic sauce. The Mojo is specifically tuned to be a little smoother than the Hugo given its intended portable purpose, and I personally love the tuning.
 
Dec 11, 2015 at 6:39 PM Post #6,722 of 42,765
 
Could that be the difference made special for Mojo? I think/guess it's about power (consumption of supply & output of power), in addition to low noise/distortion. 


I believe it's the resolution and the very accurate timing and transients from Rob's WTA filters and FPGA taps that technically provide an order of magnitude better sonic reproduction of the original performance over off the shelf solutions like Sabre, Cirrus, Wolfson, etc., and the fact that there is VERY little after that in the signal path to add distortion that gives the Mojo its magic sauce. The Mojo is specifically tuned to be a little smoother than the Hugo given its intended portable purpose, and I personally love the tuning.

 
 
 
Just a thought. Why do other DAC/headphone amps have amp sections when Hugo/Mojo get by without one, and many including Chord say it is more transparent? Have Chord got the patent for ampless amps :)


Because they can't using chip based DAC's. Chip DAC's have two current outputs. So you need two I to V converters (amps) then a differential to single ended amp, then a headphone buffer to deliver the current. You also need a lot of analogue filtering wrapped around these amps. So why are normal DAC's so complex in the analogue domain? Two reasons:
 
1. Silicon DAC's are horribly noisy, as the substrate and grounds are bouncing around due to switching activity. So to counter this, it is done differentially, which means the ground noise is cancelled. It also hides the problems of the reference circuitry, which can't be made with low enough impedance on silicon. This translates to more distortion, and crucially noise floor modulation.
 
2. Delta sigma converters run at low rates - best is at 12 MHz - this means that there is a lot of noise that must be aggressively filtered out in the analogue section. This also applies with R2R DAC's too as these have even worse problems due to the very slow switching speed.
 
So to run with a single amp section you need the DAC to be single ended and to run the noise shapers at much higher rates to reduce your filtering requirements. Because the analogue section with Mojo is discrete, I can use extremely low impedance and low noise reference supplies - something that is impossible on silicon. This has the other benefit of eliminating noise floor modulation (actually there is a lot more to it than this as there are countless other sources of noise floor modulation in a DAC). To make the filtering easier, the pulse array noise shapers run at 104MHz - over an order of magnitude faster than normal. There are other benefits to running the noise shapers at 104MHz, principally the resolving power of the noise shaper. Now soundstage depth is determined by how accurately small signals are reproduced. The problem with noise shaping is that small signals get lost - any signal below the noise shaper noise floor is lost information. But by running the noise shaper at much faster rates you solve this problem too - indeed Mojo noise shapers exceed 200dB THD and noise digital performance - that's a thousand times more resolving power than high end DAC's.
 
If I get time today I hope to publish noise floor modulation measurements showing Mojo has zero measured noise floor modulation. This level of performance does not happen on any other non pulse array DAC's at any price, and its the primary reason why Mojo sounds so smooth and musical.
 
Rob

 
Dec 11, 2015 at 6:39 PM Post #6,723 of 42,765
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Does anyone know where I can find a short cable that works between ibasso dx90 and Mojo ?
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As the title of the thread says, check the first post. There's a whole section on coaxial connections. Also, you may want to look at the Mojo Wiki, also linked in that post.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784602/chord-mojo-the-official-thread-read-the-first-post-for-updated-info#post_11992416
 
Dec 11, 2015 at 6:47 PM Post #6,725 of 42,765
Simplicity is a beauty. There is no doubt an audio path with less components will yield a cleaner sound with less distortion. From my experience, the power makes a huge difference to dynamics as a result of simple and clean audio path.
 
Dec 11, 2015 at 6:55 PM Post #6,726 of 42,765
  Is this a good choice for desktop usage mainly? thinking of getting this or the ifi micro idsd.

 
I've been using it directly with HD800s lately.
 
 
I also have the Pelican 1020 and find it fits perfect when put sideways, very snug and doesn't move. Could add some foam to stop my SE846 from moving around though.



Do any daps fit in there too?

 
 There's enough space on top for a DAP easily.  I have an AK100 strapped to mine when I put it in the case. I don't like to remove the optical cable (to avoid dropping or damaging it) so I have mine going the other direction.
 

 
Dec 11, 2015 at 7:14 PM Post #6,727 of 42,765
Here is some nudity for all you chord pervs, and no it is not mine please dont void my warranty

source:https://twitter.com/fixerhpa

I highly recommend you guys to check out the link abotve, this person is putting mojo into some serious testing, so far the reports of him states nothing put perfection. Ofcourse use google to translate the source.













 
Dec 11, 2015 at 7:38 PM Post #6,728 of 42,765
In continuing the earlier discussion on the previous page, and above, here is some more detail which may be of interest to some of you...
 
 
Please note that the following quote was posted in the 2qute DAC thread, and is referring to the Hugo, so please exercise some discretion in that the Hugo is not 100% identical to the Mojo, but the majority of this information does apply equally-well to the Mojo:
 
 
 
  Dear Rob
 
What is a OP stage? I understand discrete stage is better than op-amp, could you explain why? As I understand the Hugo has no analog volume control, so the output from the DAC doesn't go through a preamp (like one of the competing products from Salisbury)
 
Also what is a pulse array dac? is it similar to Delta Sigma or the resistor ladder Dac?  Is the sound of the hugo due to the filter or due to filter/dac combination? Also if you were to use this filter with a conventional resistor ladder DAC would it work?

 
Welcome to Head-Fi analogmusic, and I am pleased you are enjoying more musicality from your music with Hugo - which is what this is all about!
 
What is an OP stage?
OP is output, and it replaces rather poor OP stages within op-amps. When faced with designing the electronics of Hugo, I had no experience of designing headphone amps - looking into devices that supplied headphones, they were very poor. So I designed it as if it was a power amp (I've designed lots of those) and gave Hugo the ability to drive 8 ohm loudspeakers directly - which means lots of current - in Hugo's case I set it too 0.5A RMS. You will not get this current from op-amps or headphone drive chips, so I had to design a discrete amp. Now to get the best transparency there needs to be a single feedback path, so the discrete OP stage needs to be within the op-amp's global feedback path. Since the op-amps are very high gain bandwidth product devices (high speed), that meant designing a Class A OP stage with very low propagation delay, so that the circuit would remain stable. Now the op-stages in op-amps are pretty poor to awful, so when I got the first prototype I was very pleased at how good the OP stage sounded, and how much lower distortion was (particularly high order harmonics) - even when using the op-stage in DAC mode with easy loads. Indeed, I now use this arrangement all the time now, as it really improves the performance of the op-amp - that's why 2 Qute has it too. The OP stage is by far the weakest part of all op-amps and this is simply because one can use a decent Class A bias current, and very substantial OP transistors, so thermal stability is ensured. And yes, Hugo does not have an analogue volume control, so this means the analogue section is very simple (just 2 resistors and capacitors in the direct signal path). Simple analogue gives much more transparency.
 
What is a Pulse Array DAC?
This is not an easy answer, as its complex and of course proprietary. But firstly the history. I first started designing DAC's in 1989, when the first delta-sigma bitstream devices from Phillips came out - these were DSD 256 DAC's (or PDM dac's). Now they were quite musical, but had technical and SQ problems - but they had very good low signal performance, and analogue distortion characteristic (small distortion for small signals unlike R2R DAC's which have more distortion for small signals due to glitch energy and resistor matching problems - issues that are impossible to solve). The biggest problem was limiting of resolution - unlike PCM, where ultra small signals are buried in the dither and so perfectly preserved, with delta-sigma the noise floor is a cliff edge for low level signals - any small signal below the resolving power of the noise shaper is lost forever. To overcome this, I used 8 PDM noise shapers with different dither, and summed the output in the analogue current to voltage converter (I to V). This gave much better performance, but I knew that much more was possible. So I started creating my own noise shapers and DAC technology using FPGA that were just becoming available (1994 now). What I needed was much higher resolution so the noise shaper OP is 5 bits not 1 bit, and I ran the noise shapers at a much higher rate - 2048 times not 256 times. Running at a faster rate means that you have more permutations of OP, which translates to much better performance. Run a 5th order noise shaper at ten times the speed, you can get in the digital domain, up to 100 dB lower distortion and noise - that's a 100 dB improvement in small signal resolution, so running at much higher rates gives massive improvements in SQ and measurements. Twenty years on, and I am still the only silicon/FPGA DAC designer running as high as this rate - delta-sigma DAC's are still stuck at 256 times or below.
 
But changing from single bit to multi-bit noise shaping may throw the baby out with the bathwater. The primary benefit of single bit is that it can (if you are very very careful) have zero small signal distortion, as there are no resistors to balance, as there is only one. With 16e Pulse Array, there are 16 PWM elements, and each element has on the long term exactly the same data, but instantaneously slightly different data. The benefit of the Pulse Array scheme is that when the elements are slightly different in value, it creates a fixed signal independent noise, and absolutely no distortion, but has innately higher resolution of 5 bits. That's why Hugo has (uniquely compared to other non Pulse Array DAC's) no measurable distortion, or any other artifact, for signals below -30 dBFS (see plots in previous posts). Additionally, because of the way the array is composed, master clock jitter has no significant affect - random jitter gives a tiny insignificant fixed noise. Its why I don't go endlessly on about femto clocks as the DAC is innately jitter insensitive. There are many more problems with noise shaping, as it is a very complex subject, but this will give you a flavour of the issues involved.  
 
Is the sound of the hugo due to the filter or due to filter/dac combination?
The sound of Hugo is down to lots of things, but of course the primary problem that Hugo addresses is the time domain one. That's where we are converting the sampled data into the original un-sampled continuous analogue waveform - the original signal at the ADC sampling point. Now we are trying to re-create the original un-sampled waveform - re-creating all the missing bits of data from one sample to the next one. Now the theory is very straightforward - if you use an infinite tap length FIR filter with a sinc impulse response you will absolutely and perfectly reconstruct the bandwidth limited signal - if its perfectly bandwidth limited to below 22.05 kHz it will not matter if you sample at 22 uS or 22 femtoS it will make no difference to the output - if you use an infinite tap length FIR filter. Now of course, we can't have infinite tap lengths filters, we have to make do with something very limited.
 
The question is, what level of time domain accuracy do we need where improving it makes no difference to the sound quality? That's where lots of careful listening tests comes in, as nobody knows. And its where I have been spending a lot of time over the last 18 months working on project xxxx - and I have learnt a lot (and I still have more things to discover, I am sure that I have not gotten to the bottom of the time domain accuracy barrel). What is clear to me, is that the ear/brain is amazingly sensitive to tiny time domain errors - there does not seem to be a level which one can say is insignificant. This is one of the really weird and interesting things about correlating what one hears with real signal errors - the other really odd issue being the perception of sound-stage depth - this can be upset by seemingly impossibly small errors.
 
This is where I find the "DAC bit perfect" concept  - like a cheap politicians sound byte - ridiculous. The job of a DAC is to reproduce the continuous waveform at the ADC sampler - NOT to bit perfectly reproduce the sampled data with all the sampling time domain errors perfectly intact.  
  
If you were to use this filter with a conventional resistor ladder DAC would it work? 
The answer to this is yes, but not as well as Pulse Array - the 16e DAC can reproduce 50 MHz sine wave albeit with 3% THD and noise! The problem with R2R is that the OP can't switch fast enough, as there are a lot of switches involved in the R2R ladder, so in practice you can't run them above 16 FS - but I can run mine at 2048 FS so the digital domain is much closer to the original un-sampled analogue waveform. There are lots of other problems with R2R - noise floor modulation, code dependent glitch energy, high distortion at small signal levels, and moderate distortion at large signal levels.
 
 
I hope I have not confused things too much - but we are dealing with a very complex subject, and something which, after more than 30 years of intense work, I am still learning new things. Things are very complex when you dive into it, and the ear/brain is a remarkably sophisticated device - the illusion of listening to real sounds is a truly amazing brain construct, and its something we know very little about. But at the end of the day, the engineering that goes into Hugo does not matter, its the musicality that counts, so keep on enjoying music! 
 
Rob

 
Dec 11, 2015 at 8:17 PM Post #6,729 of 42,765
Cases for Mojo -- Aside from the Pelican cases, there are various soft cases used mainly for small digital cameras such as this one:
 
1300307548000_742014.jpg

 
This is a Pearstone Onyx 260 camera pouch. It's deep enough to carry my AK120 and Mojo stack and is soft on the inside with a decent amount of padding. Here's a link to one at B&H:
 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=pearstone+onyx+260&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=
 
Dec 11, 2015 at 10:54 PM Post #6,731 of 42,765
So, no one else's Mojo has turned into a mini speaker?


Actually I believed that I experienced this before. But I am not sure.

When I first got the unit connected to my desktop speaker. I had the wrong input selected on my amp. I ended up turning up my jriver volume and the mojo volume up to max. And I thought I heard a very low low volume of the song playing. I then found out I had the wrong input. Lowered the volume and corrected it. Never thought much about it till now......
 
Dec 11, 2015 at 10:58 PM Post #6,732 of 42,765
has anyone bought from ghentaudio?

just taking a look at some usb to micro b cables as 1.) mojo provides one cable and 2.) i'd like to see if improved cables provide some degree of fidelity beyond what substantial clarity mojo already provides.

it is a cheaper option compared to what qed and audioquest put out, but i haven't heard ghent mentioned around here at all.
50 for 2x 3.3ft cables
http://www.ghentaudio.com/part/u05.html
versus upwards of 80-100 for the one from either qed or audioquest.

also, wouldn't i only need the one cable for the mojo as the other micro port is meant for recharging the battery?


I have some cables from them. Really good quality stuff. The USB ones are well build. Their rca connectors are solid but a little loose fitting though.
 
Dec 12, 2015 at 1:03 AM Post #6,734 of 42,765
So I had the Mojo fed by my AK120  through sys concept optical cable outputting to my K10s for two weeks and can honestly say it does sound superb.
I feel bad for my ZX2 since it's not getting any use but it's hard to put down the Mojo/AK 120 combo.
 
 
I think this is end-game for me! I could spend more $$$ for marginal gains but not interested!
 
I'm sure many of you have came to the same realization thus not alone here!
 

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