CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Dec 14, 2017 at 8:24 PM Post #9,556 of 20,211

GryphonGuy

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Triode User said:
I can think of no reason why that power cord can make a blind bit of difference to Dave. Are you really really sure it is not just a fat helping of expectation bias? Unfortunately it is more powerful than you might expect.



I am sorry to labour the point but that very same 'difference' that pleases people might still just be expectation bias. This is not Sound Science in here but is there one jot of reason why a different power cord to the Dave might make any difference?

But power chords do make a difference to me. Whether they are better or worse, more realistic sounds or more pleasing distortion etc my point is that they do make a difference wherever I have been in the world and auditioned systems.

I am not saying anything other than they make a difference to my ears and not always pleasing. Of course people have to consider their respective budgets and goals in this hobby. Accurately reproduced sounds from observations is what DAVE seems to do extremely well with 16bit 44.1kHz source material. I think I have even said before "magical" or words to the effect before about my DAVE in its current electrically changed environment. If that means it is still inaccurate, then so be it but I enjoy it very well and when those timbres of acoustic guitars ring true to my ear then I at least THINK that it is accurate and very pleasing indeed.

Regards and compliments of the season to you
GG
 
Dec 14, 2017 at 8:40 PM Post #9,557 of 20,211

GryphonGuy

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Triode User said:
I can think of no reason why that power cord can make a blind bit of difference to Dave. Are you really really sure it is not just a fat helping of expectation bias? Unfortunately it is more powerful than you might expect.



I am sorry to labour the point but that very same 'difference' that pleases people might still just be expectation bias. This is not Sound Science in here but is there one jot of reason why a different power cord to the Dave might make any difference?

In my previous posts I didn't really address the expectation bias notion. But my statement about power cables being "not always pleasing" would tend to suggest that the expectation bias was NOT in effect. So yes I concede that expectation bias exists and that would surface when your guard was dropped for whatever reason and your system sounded different to you when supposedly no changes were made.

However, I expect I don't have enough brain power to make sounds more pleasing in my head. Having measured my blood pressure before and after music, the overwhelming majority of readings is that my blood pressure is less than when I started listening (the exceptions being Tchaikovsky and his renowned big finishes and other big finish type music sonatas). So I am fairly sure that in my circumstance there is no expectation bias because to have it would mean large amounts of brain processing power to make it sound the way I want it to (more brain processing means more blood and hence likely higher pressure in my body) and this would also suggest fatigue would set in which it doesn't with my DAVE system.

So I concede there is such a thing a expectation bias, just not in my back yard at this time about this power cable subject.

Regards
GG
 
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Dec 14, 2017 at 11:29 PM Post #9,558 of 20,211

Triode User

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In my previous posts I didn't really address the expectation bias notion. But my statement about power cables being "not always pleasing" would tend to suggest that the expectation bias was NOT in effect. So yes I concede that expectation bias exists and that would surface when your guard was dropped for whatever reason and your system sounded different to you when supposedly no changes were made.

However, I expect I don't have enough brain power to make sounds more pleasing in my head. Having measured my blood pressure before and after music, the overwhelming majority of readings is that my blood pressure is less than when I started listening (the exceptions being Tchaikovsky and his renowned big finishes and other big finish type music sonatas). So I am fairly sure that in my circumstance there is no expectation bias because to have it would mean large amounts of brain processing power to make it sound the way I want it to (more brain processing means more blood and hence likely higher pressure in my body) and this would also suggest fatigue would set in which it doesn't with my DAVE system.

So I concede there is such a thing a expectation bias, just not in my back yard at this time about this power cable subject.

Regards
GG

In your heart of hearts you must know deep down that non of that excludes expectation bias from the equation and from what YOU are hearing.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 12:14 PM Post #9,559 of 20,211

rgs9200m

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Unexpectedly, after moving from the TT to DAVE (and fearing that DAVE would be more unforgiving in the highs or shriller with vocals or ruthlessly revealing or fatiguing with popular music), I find the DAVE to be LESS peaky and more relaxing (and at the same time more detailed).
The DAVE is the best of both worlds. It's a nice smooth ride with great impact, speed, and has a great exciting swing factor.

I sometimes resorted to EQ to tame notorious digital highs with the TT (and other DACS before this), but now I don't need any EQ at all.

So far, my favorite headphone with DAVE is my ZMF Eikon (Padauk wood) with a Draug Silver cable.
The Atticus is also fine, but the Eikon's extra definition to my ears takes the cake here. The more forgiving Atticus was my favorite with the Hugo TT.
 
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Dec 15, 2017 at 2:45 PM Post #9,560 of 20,211

Jozurr

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Using the DAVE with crossfeed level 3 into my Liquid Glass is so blissful :)
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 7:00 PM Post #9,561 of 20,211

GryphonGuy

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In your heart of hearts you must know deep down that non of that excludes expectation bias from the equation and from what YOU are hearing.

In my heart of hearts, it cannot be expectation bias if i don't like the sound a power chord produces even though I am auditioning them to purchase.

Regards
GG
 
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Dec 15, 2017 at 7:06 PM Post #9,562 of 20,211

GryphonGuy

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Unexpectedly, after moving from the TT to DAVE (and fearing that DAVE would be more unforgiving in the highs or shriller with vocals or ruthlessly revealing or fatiguing with popular music), I find the DAVE to be LESS peaky and more relaxing (and at the same time more detailed).
The DAVE is the best of both worlds. It's a nice smooth ride with great impact, speed, and has a great exciting swing factor.

I sometimes resorted to EQ to tame notorious digital highs with the TT (and other DACS before this), but now I don't need any EQ at all.

So far, my favorite headphone with DAVE is my ZMF Eikon (Padauk wood) with a Draug Silver cable.
The Atticus is also fine, but the Eikon's extra definition to my ears takes the cake here. The more forgiving Atticus was my favorite with the Hugo TT.

The purity and timbre "correctness" DAVE produces continues to astound, amaze and leave me in awe of its capabilities in music reproduction. No EQ. Just the Utopia's and DAVE for me.

Regards
GG
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 7:25 PM Post #9,563 of 20,211

xxx1313

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The purity and timbre "correctness" DAVE produces continues to astound, amaze and leave me in awe of its capabilities in music reproduction. No EQ. Just the Utopia's and DAVE for me.

Regards
GG

The same feeling here. Utopia and Dave are just perfect together.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 8:01 PM Post #9,564 of 20,211

Jozurr

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Ive been using the Liquid Glass in between my Dave and Utopias and I feel it adds some weight to the sound while taking off the edge.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 9:49 PM Post #9,565 of 20,211

Beolab

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I was intrigued by the 2.5Ghz spec, so I ordered 5 from Farnell UK yesterday afternoon and they arrived today! Amazing considering it was "free" delivery.

Unfortunately I had a doh! moment and ordered the wrong size (8mm) which was too small for my 10mm-ish USB cable, so instead I added the new ferrites onto my Supra CAT8.
This already had 8 x Wurth 1Ghz plus 8 x el-cheapo ferrites (which presumably cover a lower frequency range). I didn't really want to add yet more ferrites to this cable, so I simply replaced 5 el-cheapos with 5 Wurth 2.5Ghz. All at the destination end of the cable (microRendu). And wonder of wonders, I immediately heard improvements of the same type as before - the very first thing I noticed was an increase in depth and image 3D-ness, which is always welcome with my headphones. Caveat: I've only listened to a few tracks for a few minutes before writing this, so this isn't conclusive, but I felt the improvement was obvious enough that I didn't need to go through those tedious A/B swap comparisons.

That quick test also told me that the spec of the ferrite really does matter, with the potential of being able to reduce the total number of ferrites (I'll start trying that in the future, but for now now I'll just enjoy the music).
I've now ordered 5 x 12.5mm size (the only other size listed) that will fit my USB cable.

I would class the improvement of this change as somewhat above "marginally better", but then my source components are very different to Rob's (and I don't have a Blu2), so as always YMMV.

EDIT: When I had written the above, I had not seen Rob's last post explaining why the Ghz range matters. So I'm pleased that my comments about depth improvement coincides with a scientific explanantion. Althought this is without a BLU2 in the chain. What I don't know is if this ferrite improvement is affecting DAVE's performance or microRendu's?


you mention the Supra CAT 8 , and i was just woundering if you have unwraped the “gold plated” shielding on one of the RJ45 ends yet, so you get a floating ground? I did this, and it did a pretty big improvment
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 10:22 PM Post #9,566 of 20,211

MacedonianHero

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The same feeling here. Utopia and Dave are just perfect together.

That's my preferred way to listen to the Utopias. Pure and as little colouration or distortion as possible. :)
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 11:11 PM Post #9,567 of 20,211

Christer

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The same feeling here. Utopia and Dave are just perfect together.
IMHO "Perfect" or rather close to as good as digital gets,until you hear either the same combo with BLU2 added into the equation or Susvara.
But the probem with Susvara and DAVE/BLU2 is that you need to add a good headphone amp with large dynamic range material.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 11:34 PM Post #9,568 of 20,211

lojay

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My Utopias have responded very well to upstream improvements for the DAVE.

Let me preface this by saying that I haven't been using the Utopias for a long time. Until my most recent listen, I felt that Utopias had a bit of bloated mids, a severely constricted sound-stage and a cavernous presentation that did not sound as airy, natural and open as say the Sennheiser HE90s or Stax SR-Omega to my ears. A comparatively minor complaint is that the Utopias' treble, on certain tracks, sounded slightly metallic and artificial.

For the past few months, I have moved on to speakers while my headphones have been gathering dust. I have been driving efficient Omega speakers off the Chord DAVE and Blu II (Wireworld Platinum Starlight BNC cables plus ferrites), connected via High Fidelity Cables Pro and Ultimate Reference power and interconnects, with USB input from a highly modified SOtM sMS1000SQ server through the tX-USB ultra re-clocker, all upgraded with sCLK-EX clock mods and powered by Uptone LPS-1 / sPS-500 PSUs. This is a very blissful combination, and is made much better with the JL Audio F112 v2 subwoofer that I recently acquired.

Recently, out of sheer curiosity I brought my Utopias home and drove them directly through the DAVE in the above setup. The cavernous presentation is by far ameliorated and is much airier than before, and the mids sound more natural. I think this is entirely explicable - the main reason for this improvement is the addition of the Blu II, which I know from experience with speakers solidifies image cues and reduces the bloat in the mids that the DAVE, standing alone, suffers. Some might prefer the DAVE alone in fact because the mids sound lusher and I can imagine this will sound great with some modern recordings. But realism and naturalness is sacrificed, and my experience with the Utopias amply demonstrate this.
 
Dec 16, 2017 at 12:30 AM Post #9,569 of 20,211

rgs9200m

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I'd be curious to know what the favorite headphones are that people use with the DAVE. (I can see that the Utopia is, but what about beyond these? Thanks. So far I'm liking my ZMF Eikon and Hifiman HE1000v2 the best.)
 
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Dec 16, 2017 at 1:19 PM Post #9,570 of 20,211

hattrick15

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I'd be curious to know what the favorite headphones are that people use with the DAVE. (I can see that the Utopia is, but what about beyond these? Thanks. So far I'm liking my ZMF Eikon and Hifiman HE1000v2 the best.)

I have both the Utopia and LCD-4 that I use with my Dave/Blu2. I prefer the LCD-4 over the Utopia (as I did when I just had the DAVE alone). The LCD-4 have a great warmth that is missing from the Utopia.
 

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