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Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by magiccabbage, May 14, 2015.
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  1. rkt31
    some people have used still points below the audio gear ( may be for dave too) and still points provide the rigid connection ( far rigid than any pads sort of things) . in case of still points also people talk about so much more improvement . i think the connection provided by the chord dave's own feet must also be somewhere close to or in between the two methods . so can't think of much affect of these things except some extremely minor change ( may not be improvement ) which brain perceives differently. however a rigid point connection in case of speakers and sub is obviously lends much more improvement. i use only three screws in my custom speaker stands to avoid any rocking whatsoever 
    After reading 250 pages (yes, all 250), the thing that really sucks about the DAVE is that you cannot listen to one before you plop that kind of money down.

    If you go to a car dealership, at least you can drive the damned thing to see if you like it.

    I mean, I understand not being able to demo a 2k DAC, but a 13k DAC is quite a leap of faith, no matter what anybody says about the gear. I have the money;nonetheless, no matter how much you have, you still have to be smart with it.

    I live in Houston, Texas, and it looks like the closest dealer to me is in NYC. That sucks. I'll be in Italy a couple of weeks from now, but the only Chord dealer I found over there does not have the DAVE.

    Hell, I'm a writer by trade, so I would even review the DAVE, which makes it even more frustrating.

    A lost customer? Perhaps. Im really very sorry for the rant, but it's killing me to hear this product, and since I live in Houston (which has an extremely small audio community - I even checked in Austin), I'm at a loss for what to do. :frowning2:

    I want to be able to seriously step up my game.
  3. miketlse
    It is not a problem with DAVE, it is a problem with the poor way that some dealers treat their potential customers. 
    Contrast your experience with this guy in the UK   http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/dave-dac-cracker
    He had to stop listening to DAVE after just five minutes, because he could tell it was outstanding, but couldn't torture himself by listening longer to a DAC that he would be unlikely to buy because of its cost.
    I think the DAVE is like the Mojo, in that so many people who demo the Mojo, realise they need to buy one.
    So only risk demoing a DAVE, if you are ready to be overcome with feelings of the need to open your wallet and buy one. [​IMG] 
  4. ecwl

    Going a little off-topic, I think the challenge really is the economics behind high-end audio. I suspect your local Houston dealer could theoretically call Bluebird Music and ask for a unit. They'll either have to pay demo price or wholesale price. And at $13,300? MSRP, I'm guessing they'll have to pay $7000-10000? upfront. And if you demo'd it and didn't want to buy it, they'll have to find a way to offload the product to not lose money. If you like it but you want a new unit or a different colored unit, they'll probably have to pay another $10,000 to order your unit and sell it to you for $13,300 and then they still have to think of a way to get rid of the demo they brought in for you. So they make $3300 from you but they still are out the $7000-10000 they paid upfront for the demo. Moreover, what if you really like the unit but you call up NYC and they're willing to sell you one shipped for $12,000? So Houston would be saddled with their demo unit that they brought in just for you and the NYC store just made $2000 off the product Houston brought in.
    I find my local dealers are much more willing to bring in a product for demo if they know there are at least 2 and preferably 3 people who are genuinely interested in the product. Obviously, if people are willing to commit to a purchase and pay upfront, they would also be more willing to bring the product in. But there is still a danger that the product is brought in and the customer renege on the purchase so another risk to the brick-and-mortar audio store. Another problem I see my local dealers running into is that once you're willing to bring one product in, the customers will want you to bring competing products so that they can A/B the products. There is virtually no end to this. It just ties up capital to no end.
    Sadly, the comparison to a car dealership is so different... The total sale of cars annually in America is so great so you don't have to worry about a car not selling because you can discount it and avoid the loss whereas the total sale for even the $600 Mojo is so small by comparison, even bringing such a product in for a smaller store is a financial risk if the product doesn't sell. If you really want somebody to bring the Chord DAVE in for demo, haha, perhaps you should ask the car dealerships to bring the Chord DAVE in. The margins are fatter and they have the capital to absorb the loss...
    I always think of high-end audio products as purely luxury items so I actually don't mind travelling to specific places to listen to the product. I think at that price, I just factor in a vacation with the plan to listen to the specific component, be it at a show or a store. Obviously, it's not the same as demo'ing it at home in your own system. But the cost of demo'ing the product for me is folded into the vacation so even if I'm disappointed by the product, I would have had a nice vacation. I think you've probably gathered from the 250 pages here that Chord DAVE is a product that's worth flying around the world to listen to, if you're into high-end audio, specifically state of the art, top of the line performance.
    JaZZ and Light - Man like this.
    All extremely good points. Thanks for the comments!

    Words, though. I deal in words all day long. I can make anybody believe what I want them to believe (at least for a short period of time).

    I'm not arguing, however. Far from it! Perhaps I should just give it some time to simmer in my mind. I go to NYC from time to time, but not this year. Maybe not even the next. Well, perhaps next year I can demo one in California. That's a long time, though!

    I want an Oompa Loompa now! Haha.
  6. miketlse
    Step 1 - Strategic thinking is called for - only arrange meetings with publishers in cities that contain Chord dealers. [​IMG]
    Step 2 - You are then very well qualified, to prepare a few sentences explaining to your nearest and dearest, why it was essential to buy a DAVE. [​IMG]  [​IMG]
    Aslshark and EVOLVIST like this.
  7. shuttlepod

    Post #2247 in this thread is my review of the DAVE, where I mentioned that the local Chord rep allowed me a generous two-week audition in Seattle. I initially contacted Bluebird Music and they put me in touch with the local rep for the Pacific Northwest. This was an individual, not a bricks and mortar dealer. But the individual got in touch with me immediately and offered a two-week audition with a 60% deposit. I told him I was also interested in auditioning a Hugo TT for comparison purposes, and he delivered a TT at the same time as the DAVE. In short order I was auditioning both DACs. At the end of the two weeks, he refunded my deposit and I did some auditioning of other DACs before committing to the DAVE. After putting down another deposit, I waited somewhere around 4-5 weeks for delivery. The whole transaction was smooth with excellent customer service. 
    I have no idea whether my experience translates to other parts of the country, but I would strongly suggest you have a conversation with Jay Rein at Bluebird Music and find out what your options are.
    EVOLVIST likes this.
  8. rgs9200m
    You can't hear, say, an Apex Pinnacle amp unless you go to a meet or show, and this is true for many audio items. High end audio is a niche business and retail stores are rare, not like car dealers. And if you are looking for a particular item, it's often impossible. That's always been the case. And many, many items are just sold direct. (This is especially true for speakers and other products than can cost tens of thousands of dollars).
    That's just the way it is.
  9. romaz
    Power conditioners are a two-edged sword.  They have the ability to lower the noise floor resulting in improved clarity and dynamics but they also have the potential to limit dynamics.  Many claim to not to be current limiting but when you compare what you get with your component straight to the wall, sometimes the tradeoff with power conditioners aren't worth it.  This is especially a concern with transformer-based power conditioners and AC regenerators and so YMMV with these things.
    The Audience was very good from the standpoint that it resulted in a very obvious lowering of the noise floor with my TotalDac system while only adding 30 milliohms of resistance to the circuit.  Their latest version, the TSSOX, which I upgraded to, utilized OHNO OCC copper wiring throughout (6N purity), the same wiring used in their top of the line AU24SE mains cable.  I also upgraded to the Furutech GTX-D(R) receptacles.  Each step change resulted in incremental but noticeable improvement and I was very pleased with it, especially given its compact size compared to the Shunyata Triton/Typhon or the Bybee Stealth Power Purifier that I also looked at.  The Audience combined with my Entreq grounding box resulted in such improvement with my TotalDac system that I considered them mandatory.
    When I got the DAVE, neither seemed to make much difference at all and this is a credit to the DAVE's design, that it is already so well isolated against RF noise that these things didn't matter much, maybe because I already have a dedicated circuit and fairly clean mains power.  And so I sold them off.  Out of principle, I connected the DAVE to a Dynamic Design Challenger AE15 mains cable which incorporates a battery-powered RF shield.  It made a small difference and looked impressive aesthetically but I could have easily stuck with the generic 18g mains cable that came with the DAVE.
    The MC-6 Hemisphere is different because the difference it has made has indeed been significant with my DAVE and everything else, even with my dedicated circuit.  It is not a remedy if your mains line suffers from wide voltage fluctuations nor is it a fix for ground loops.  For those things, you might need to still consider an AC regenerator or isolation transformer and of course, these things can all be combined.  I cannot fully explain the science behind this magnetic conduction technology and as always, YMMV, but like the Audience was with my TotalDac system, I consider my HFC gear mandatory with my DAVE.
  10. romaz
    I interpreted the same thing.  The fact that these pads sounded better when placed under the DAVE's feet would suggest perhaps that the higher loading that was occurring at the feet themselves was resulting in better dampening from this product.  
    As for trying so many different pads right away, the low relative cost of these things made it a non-issue.  My washing machine presently shakes a mirror on our wall during the spin cycle and since this is what these pads are designed for, this was a no-brainer.  As for wanting to isolate my subwoofer so that the light sconces on my walls don't rattle, I have wanted to do this for a while.  I am hoping it will result in further tightening of my bass as well.
  11. Ampus
    There are some reports stating that Hugo sounded better while being squashed by the tank in that YouTube video ... Off to Army Surplus Depot to obtain a used tank as damping material for my incoming DAVE
  12. romaz
    It is very admirable that you would read all 250 pages.  I have done it myself.  A nice crash course would have been to read all of Rob's posts.
    @shuttlepod's experience is ideal.  I suggest you contact his dealer and even though you live in Texas, I'm not sure that should necessarily matter.  A sale is a sale.  The dealer in Chicago is also very easy to work with and he will work with out of state customers provided he believes you are a serious potential customer.  He offered an out-of-state in-home demo to someone here.  I believe my Chord dealer in San Francisco will also offer you the option of an in-home demo although if you decide not to buy, he will charge you a small fee.  You can also fly to Denver in October for RMAF.  I'm sure Chord and the DAVE will be there but an in-home audition would be best.
  13. rkt31
    there was a link posted in this forum for recordings of analog out of top DACs including dave. at that time I could not download the clip and later on the link was removed from the forum. can anybody provide the link again. thanks !
  14. bmichels
    I will investigate the MC-6 Hemisphere, asking them first  if they have an European 220 volts version.
  15. esimms86
    I can't imagine there aren't some Brits here who are planning to attend CanJam London next month. I live in the US and I won't be at CanJam, however, I'm eager to read impressions of DAVE vs. the MSB Select electrostatic headphone amp and DAC. I know that it's not a fair fight price wise, plus DAVE is obviously set up for dynamic headphones. Nonetheless, we're talking about statement, reference level pieces of kit in both instances.
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