CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Jan 3, 2022 at 1:54 PM Post #18,601 of 22,704

alxw0w

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Oh yes loudness is funny thing. Some people just love to listen loud. Or maybe it's not loud to them? Maybe they lost so much hearing? Or maybe they can tolerate higher loudness?

I remember once we were comparing headphones with friend of mine.
I was just shocked how loud he is listening. The sound from headphones was blasting so freaking hard I couldn't stand it for more than 5-10 seconds it was just painful 😖
But he was like "what's wrong with you, it's not that loud..."

Same thing happened when we were listening to speakers. Volume was so high that i could tolerate it, but barely. It was too loud I couldn't focus on music. I felt disturbed and nervous even though we were listening to some vocal jazz that is rather smooth and calm music.

Im just amazed how some people just don't care about their ears. I want to enjoy music even in my older age. But some just love their head to be smashed with sledgehammer. 🤔
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 1:59 PM Post #18,602 of 22,704

801evan

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Oh yes loudness is funny thing. Some people just love to listen loud. Or maybe it's not loud to them? Maybe they lost so much hearing? Or maybe they can tolerate higher loudness?

I remember once we were comparing headphones with friend of mine.
I was just shocked how loud he is listening. The sound from headphones was blasting so freaking hard I couldn't stand it for more than 5-10 seconds it was just painful 😖
But he was like "what's wrong with you, it's not that loud..."

Same thing happened when we were listening to speakers. Volume was so high that i could tolerate it, but barely. It was too loud I couldn't focus on music. I felt disturbed and nervous even though we were listening to some vocal jazz that is rather smooth and calm music.

Im just amazed how some people just don't care about their ears. I want to enjoy music even in my older age. But some just love their head to be smashed with sledgehammer. 🤔
Just as well, the ability to have a conversation in a loud bar when I couldn't hear squat.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 2:41 PM Post #18,603 of 22,704

number1sixerfan

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The Dave does not drive the Susvara or even the TC well. They absolutely sound better with an adequate headphone/speaker amp behind it. I would not spend that kind of money on headphones just to limit their performance, seems like an obvious waste of money imo. For efficient headphones however, the Dave does an excellent job.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 2:49 PM Post #18,604 of 22,704

ecwl

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To be clear, this is the same pair of headphones but different songs where people would listen -5dB and +20dB compared to you? If it's the same song same headphone then wow on the variance. If it's the same headphone but different personal tracks, the reason is the nominal loudness of different tracks. And the variance is around 14-25dB nominal level. One might be listening to EDM and the other listens to jazz and that
explains it.
Same bit-perfect source (no volume adjustments), same DAVE, same headphones, same song, -5dB to +20dB difference in listening volume compared to me.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 7:21 PM Post #18,605 of 22,704

jlbrach

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Super good on the Dave. Dave can drive the Susvara, which means it can also drive the Stealth. Though it needs a line conditioner + using Spdif inputs for better quality and lower distortion.

Screenshot_20220103-215654.jpg
dont listen to this guy..if you buy a susvara and think you can drive it with your chord dave you will be sorely disappointed...I do not really care what this individual thinks but I want to keep potential buyers from finding out too late that they will either need to add an amp or sell the susvara....as one who owns several HP's including the susvara and the dave I have no desire to mislead.....the dave actually drives HP's like the utopia or lcd-5 and to a lessor degree the solitaire P very well....the abyss on some recordings can be driven out of the dave....the susvara simply cannot to the level one would expect for a 6K HP....
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 7:25 PM Post #18,606 of 22,704

jlbrach

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The ability to drive loud is nothing to be proud off. Ear trauma will set in so fast that the ability to hear nuance is zero and so is the ability to A/A, nevermind A/B.
this is not an argument or discussion about driving to loud volumes which you can do with most any source...it is about being able to take advantage of a HP as good as the susvara and being able to get the best out of it...even rob watts acknowledges the dave cannot drive the susvara properly...it can as I said earlier drive most HP's quite nicely
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 7:49 PM Post #18,607 of 22,704

iDesign

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I think this debate of whether DAVE can drive specific low-sensitivity headphones is confusing to most people and I think actually, everybody is right.

I bring my DAVE to the local head-fi meet sometimes and what I've found is that people listen to music (the same songs) with the same headphones at completely different volumes. I would say it varies by 25dB. I was shocked that a couple of people listen at 5dB less than me and a few others at 20dB louder than me (which I thought was painful to my ears). In fact, I would say most would listen at 5-10dB louder than me.

Hence, I'm not surprised when some people say they found that DAVE can't drive Susvara or Stealth while others say they can (since DAVE would start digitally clipping at +4dB). It comes down to how loud you like to listen.

That said, another thing I noticed at the local head-fi meets is that sometimes, DAVE can easily drive a headphone (even at 20dB louder than my preferred volume) but some people just like their preferred amplifier's (distorted?) sound. Like some headphone amplifier has higher output impedances so the bass would sound different with their low impedance headphones. But honestly, that's a rarer scenario. I found the former scenario to be much more prevalent.

I can't comment on Stealth or even Susvara since I've never heard them. But I can say that even for HE1000v2, which is more sensitive than Susvara, my DAVE can drive the HE1000v2 at comfortable volumes although occasionally, it'll be close to maxing out. But I know that at least 80% of my fellow local head-fi meet members would find that DAVE is not powerful enough to drive the HE1000v2 because they prefer to listen at a louder volume. I strongly suspect Susvara would be even more so.
Great post. I wish HeadFi had additional profile fields for things like age, listening volume, hearing loss, music genre, tonal preferences, ear/canal size (for IEM and tip recommendations) etc. As the community has grown in recent years, I’ve found it increasingly difficult to understand reviews because few provide enough context. Members like “Romaz“ and “aaf evo“ seemingly have the ability to identify/pinpoint the smallest flaws and accurately describe their perception of sound. For future reference, I only listen to classical recordings using the Focal Utopia with the Blu MkII and DAVE at -30dB which is very low. If I were to raise the volume to “teenangster levels” and listen to a genre like EDM, my opinions of the same equipment would probably change entirely.
 
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Jan 3, 2022 at 9:14 PM Post #18,608 of 22,704

jlbrach

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-30?...gee, congrats on having very very good hearing
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 9:45 PM Post #18,609 of 22,704

801evan

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dont listen to this guy..if you buy a susvara and think you can drive it with your chord dave you will be sorely disappointed...I do not really care what this individual thinks but I want to keep potential buyers from finding out too late that they will either need to add an amp or sell the susvara....as one who owns several HP's including the susvara and the dave I have no desire to mislead.....the dave actually drives HP's like the utopia or lcd-5 and to a lessor degree the solitaire P very well....the abyss on some recordings can be driven out of the dave....the susvara simply cannot to the level one would expect for a 6K HP....
Kindly explain how the Dave lacks power to drive Susvara if there's still +20dB worth of headroom. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 9:53 PM Post #18,612 of 22,704

HeeBroG

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Hence, I'm not surprised when some people say they found that DAVE can't drive Susvara or Stealth while others say they can (since DAVE would start digitally clipping at +4dB). It comes down to how loud you like to listen.
I might be mistaken but I think this +3dB maximum with DAVE alone only applies if the recording was done at 0dBFS.

Some recordings are a little "softer" than this or if there is a hardware issue like with the SRC-DX, mentioned earlier, which would allow one to increase the volume beyond +3dB without causing clipping.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 9:57 PM Post #18,613 of 22,704

801evan

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.if you buy a susvara and think you can drive it with your chord dave you will be sorely disappointed...I do not really care what this individual thinks but I want to keep potential buyers from finding out too late that they will either need to add an amp or sell the susvara
I'd be more disappointed with a fried susvara due to some bad advice of running a speaker amp. I've seen at least 8 fried susvaras due to being used with a speaker amp. And like a cult, the speaker amp users says to keep on going because Hifiman just has poor QC. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Here's another question for the big speaker amp fans, if the power requirement of the Susvara is indeed so, why didn't Hifiman rated it as so? My method have successfully aligned to the specs Susvara gave. If the Susvara was designed for a speaker amp, why does it tiptoe in such a small window of sounding great with lots of power and breaking at that level?
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 10:06 PM Post #18,614 of 22,704

801evan

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Same bit-perfect source (no volume adjustments), same DAVE, same headphones, same song, -5dB to +20dB difference in listening volume compared to me.
Same song.👀👀 I relatively listen softer than other ppl in my audio circle. I reckon due to my ear being more resonant faster on the upper mids than the other guy, this is what the Flare Calmer tackles for example but I also understand how loud to play before ear trauma sets in. Meanwhile, my partner listens at much softer levels. And we both go to live music shows. Loud ones. Interestingly I always go to shows with Etymotics ear plugs, my partner doesn't. 🤷‍♂️
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 10:09 PM Post #18,615 of 22,704

number1sixerfan

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I'd be more disappointed with a fried susvara due to some bad advice of running a speaker amp. I've seen at least 8 fried susvaras due to being used with a speaker amp. And like a cult, the speaker amp users says to keep on going because Hifiman just has poor QC. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Here's another question for the big speaker amp fans, if the power requirement of the Susvara is indeed so, why didn't Hifiman rated it as so? My method have successfully aligned to the specs Susvara gave. If the Susvara was designed for a speaker amp, why does it tiptoe in such a small window of sounding great with lots of power and breaking at that level?

Hifiman literally sells a premium speaker amp just for pairing with the Susvara lol

But I'm not looking for an argument here, btw. Just want to dispute the "Dave can drive any headphone' mantra that pops up here from time to time. And it isn't about volume, it's about driving the headphones to their full capability. The Dave simply cannot.
 

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