CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Jan 1, 2022 at 7:56 PM Post #18,586 of 22,704

ecwl

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
762
Likes
781
Location
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
The LCD-5 thread all got their pitchforks out when I pointed this out a month ago. Nevertheless, I'd like to at least try it out with them before making a decision on pulling the trigger. I'd rather not mess around with EQ either, but I'm curious what exactly is this holy grail I'd supposedly be missing by not going it. It would be straight up parametric EQ. I've done it without enabling Headroom management or sample rate conversion. It introduced some weird artifacts and i was told that might be the case. Not sure how I should configure them manually to account for the M-scaler. Or if there is a "right way " of doing it.
If you're going to EQ and your EQ just lowers the volume at certain frequencies, you shouldn't need to use Headroom management.
However, if your EQ settings would increase the volume at certain frequencies, you should enable Headroom management. For example, if the maximum EQ is say +5dB at 1kHz with whatever Q, then you need to set the Headroom management to -5dB. Otherwise, whenever you hit the 1kHz note and if it's super loud in the recording, that +5dB EQ would clip that note and create artifacts.
You shouldn't need to use sample rate conversion. Sample rate conversion definitely worsens timing accuracy significantly. You should never turn that on.
Now lowering the volume via Headroom management would also affect the soundstage depth.

The reason why people get their pitchforks out are because:
1) Some people just can't hear certain things. It may be equipment related. It may be hearing training related. Or it may be fundamentally hearing related. People don't like to be told they can't hear certain things. Especially if their hobby is audio.
2) Sometimes the improvements from EQ is so big that the sonic gain is better than the subtle loss of soundstage depth. So the problem is just ignored.
 
Jan 1, 2022 at 8:06 PM Post #18,587 of 22,704

jlbrach

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Posts
6,094
Likes
5,490
Hey chaps- I am thinking of ordering a DCA Stealth for use with my DAVE+Mscaler.

Any thoughts on whether DAVE is able to drive it well enough?
Many thanks!
it isnt...it needs an amp...yes, you can listen to it but it wont be optimal....the stealth surprisingly needs tons of power
 
Last edited:
Jan 3, 2022 at 8:59 AM Post #18,588 of 22,704

801evan

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Posts
1,638
Likes
853
Location
Philippines
Hey chaps- I am thinking of ordering a DCA Stealth for use with my DAVE+Mscaler.

Any thoughts on whether DAVE is able to drive it well enough?
Many thanks!
Super good on the Dave. Dave can drive the Susvara, which means it can also drive the Stealth. Though it needs a line conditioner + using Spdif inputs for better quality and lower distortion.

Screenshot_20220103-215654.jpg
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 10:11 AM Post #18,589 of 22,704

DJJEZ

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Posts
1,124
Likes
2,532
Location
UK
Super good on the Dave. Dave can drive the Susvara, which means it can also drive the Stealth. Though it needs a line conditioner + using Spdif inputs for better quality and lower distortion.

The DAVE cannot drive susvara. You need to stop with your trolling and trying to get people to argue with you. No-one on here or Any other forum is gonna agree with your crazy statements.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 10:13 AM Post #18,590 of 22,704

801evan

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Posts
1,638
Likes
853
Location
Philippines
The DAVE cannot drive susvara. You need to stop with your trolling and trying to get people to argue with you. No-one on here or Any other forum is gonna agree with your crazy statements.
You're trolling coz that's all you can say the whole time... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ You do the same thing with anyone who doesn't follow your purchasing choices. We've seen how you dismissed Lachlan's review. 😉

You have to accept some people can set up the Dave better than others.
 
Last edited:
Jan 3, 2022 at 10:25 AM Post #18,592 of 22,704

801evan

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Posts
1,638
Likes
853
Location
Philippines
That's common thing that is always told all over the internet.
On the other hand some people (for example in Susvara thread) claims that it is a marvelous combo. But from the other side a lot of the folks says that you need 100wat+ speaker amp to drive them.... - that's to me sounds like a complete nonsense.
Anyway
Doing "math" it seems like Dave would drive Susvara to 110-112db before it would clip - so that's very very/extremely loud.
When most of my listening occurs (80-90db - mostly around 80) Dave should be more than fine driving Susvara with a lot of db headroom.

I suppose I'll have to somehow go to the dealer with the Dave and finds that out myself.
The Dave can drive the Susvara. The issue is the chain most people have with the Dave gives the impression that the Dave can't drive it. So the Dave becomes the scapegoat.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 10:27 AM Post #18,593 of 22,704

MvRBE10

Member of the Trade: Farad Power Supplies
Joined
Oct 8, 2021
Posts
323
Likes
382
Location
netherlands
Whats to setup? These mosfets can drive them or not. Nothing to setup or you can change about these physics? Sound can be altered by lps or filters but power it can not. If you dont have any clue what you are taking about you can better not speak or you will confuse people
 
Last edited:
Jan 3, 2022 at 11:26 AM Post #18,595 of 22,704

ecwl

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
762
Likes
781
Location
Winnipeg, MB, Canada
What a friendly bunch...if you insist having a life of owning a Dave where you can't drive a Susvara, a headphone that only needs <142mw, so be it.
I think this debate of whether DAVE can drive specific low-sensitivity headphones is confusing to most people and I think actually, everybody is right.

I bring my DAVE to the local head-fi meet sometimes and what I've found is that people listen to music (the same songs) with the same headphones at completely different volumes. I would say it varies by 25dB. I was shocked that a couple of people listen at 5dB less than me and a few others at 20dB louder than me (which I thought was painful to my ears). In fact, I would say most would listen at 5-10dB louder than me.

Hence, I'm not surprised when some people say they found that DAVE can't drive Susvara or Stealth while others say they can (since DAVE would start digitally clipping at +4dB). It comes down to how loud you like to listen.

That said, another thing I noticed at the local head-fi meets is that sometimes, DAVE can easily drive a headphone (even at 20dB louder than my preferred volume) but some people just like their preferred amplifier's (distorted?) sound. Like some headphone amplifier has higher output impedances so the bass would sound different with their low impedance headphones. But honestly, that's a rarer scenario. I found the former scenario to be much more prevalent.

I can't comment on Stealth or even Susvara since I've never heard them. But I can say that even for HE1000v2, which is more sensitive than Susvara, my DAVE can drive the HE1000v2 at comfortable volumes although occasionally, it'll be close to maxing out. But I know that at least 80% of my fellow local head-fi meet members would find that DAVE is not powerful enough to drive the HE1000v2 because they prefer to listen at a louder volume. I strongly suspect Susvara would be even more so.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 11:34 AM Post #18,596 of 22,704

801evan

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Posts
1,638
Likes
853
Location
Philippines
I think this debate of whether DAVE can drive specific low-sensitivity headphones is confusing to most people and I think actually, everybody is right.

I bring my DAVE to the local head-fi meet sometimes and what I've found is that people listen to music (the same songs) with the same headphones at completely different volumes. I would say it varies by 25dB. I was shocked that a couple of people listen at 5dB less than me and a few others at 20dB louder than me (which I thought was painful to my ears). In fact, I would say most would listen at 5-10dB louder than me.

Hence, I'm not surprised when some people say they found that DAVE can't drive Susvara or Stealth while others say they can (since DAVE would start digitally clipping at +4dB). It comes down to how loud you like to listen.

That said, another thing I noticed at the local head-fi meets is that sometimes, DAVE can easily drive a headphone (even at 20dB louder than my preferred volume) but some people just like their preferred amplifier's (distorted?) sound. Like some headphone amplifier has higher output impedances so the bass would sound different with their low impedance headphones. But honestly, that's a rarer scenario. I found the former scenario to be much more prevalent.

I can't comment on Stealth or even Susvara since I've never heard them. But I can say that even for HE1000v2, which is more sensitive than Susvara, my DAVE can drive the HE1000v2 at comfortable volumes although occasionally, it'll be close to maxing out. But I know that at least 80% of my fellow local head-fi meet members would find that DAVE is not powerful enough to drive the HE1000v2 because they prefer to listen at a louder volume. I strongly suspect Susvara would be even more so.
When I first got the src dx, it was outputting at only half volume due to a Linux issue and it put me in a situation of doing full volume on the susvara (+16dB or +18dB). I'm not sure if that created a situation where one should expect some clipping/distortion, but it didn't. Perhaps there's a testament here. When I sorted the src dx out, my listening volume is -6dB to -4dB. I can go to +1dB where its crazy loud for me as a test and it was fine. Most clipping scenarios in my experience is source quality. My Soekris would blink it's clipping light if my CDT + OCXO hasn't warmed up overnight or is using stock psu. This is one of the factor that introduces clipping and has nothing to do with the Dave's amplifier. A poor source that creates a high noise floor situation will introduce clipping because one is trying to fight and the transients WILL introduce clipping.
 
Last edited:
Jan 3, 2022 at 11:34 AM Post #18,597 of 22,704

sm60

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Posts
167
Likes
318
Location
Morgan Hill California
I think this debate of whether DAVE can drive specific low-sensitivity headphones is confusing to most people and I think actually, everybody is right.

I bring my DAVE to the local head-fi meet sometimes and what I've found is that people listen to music (the same songs) with the same headphones at completely different volumes. I would say it varies by 25dB. I was shocked that a couple of people listen at 5dB less than me and a few others at 20dB louder than me (which I thought was painful to my ears). In fact, I would say most would listen at 5-10dB louder than me.

Hence, I'm not surprised when some people say they found that DAVE can't drive Susvara or Stealth while others say they can (since DAVE would start digitally clipping at +4dB). It comes down to how loud you like to listen.

That said, another thing I noticed at the local head-fi meets is that sometimes, DAVE can easily drive a headphone (even at 20dB louder than my preferred volume) but some people just like their preferred amplifier's (distorted?) sound. Like some headphone amplifier has higher output impedances so the bass would sound different with their low impedance headphones. But honestly, that's a rarer scenario. I found the former scenario to be much more prevalent.

I can't comment on Stealth or even Susvara since I've never heard them. But I can say that even for HE1000v2, which is more sensitive than Susvara, my DAVE can drive the HE1000v2 at comfortable volumes although occasionally, it'll be close to maxing out. But I know that at least 80% of my fellow local head-fi meet members would find that DAVE is not powerful enough to drive the HE1000v2 because they prefer to listen at a louder volume. I strongly suspect Susvara would be even more so.
If you routinely listen at high volumes with headphones, you can throw away the Dave and get a $500 Topping or any other DAC that measures just as well. Your hearing is probably shot so it makes no difference. People are astonishingly naive about how delicate the hearing mechanism is that we all take for granted. At the most sensitive frequency, the eardrum moves less than the width of a hydrogen atom. Astonishing that such a tiny displacement can be detected by our brain. Don’t destroy your precious hearing by headphone listening at high volumes. It’s not worth it!
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 11:37 AM Post #18,598 of 22,704

801evan

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Posts
1,638
Likes
853
Location
Philippines
If you routinely listen at high volumes with headphones, you can throw away the Dave and get a $500 Topping or any other DAC that measures just as well. Your hearing is probably shot so it makes no difference. People are astonishingly naive about how delicate the hearing mechanism is that we all take for granted. At the most sensitive frequency, the eardrum moves less than the width of a hydrogen atom. Astonishing that such a tiny displacement can be detected by our brain. Don’t destroy your precious hearing by headphone listening at high volumes. It’s not worth it!
The ability to drive loud is nothing to be proud off. Ear trauma will set in so fast that the ability to hear nuance is zero and so is the ability to A/A, nevermind A/B.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 11:50 AM Post #18,599 of 22,704

rkt31

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Posts
1,990
Likes
704
There is no point in listening to higher than normal volume because there is a particular volume which gives the impression like vocal are in front of you with reference to other instruments. This volume also gives the correct depth and width perception. This volume is most of the time lot less than most audiophiles boast to listen to.
 
Jan 3, 2022 at 11:59 AM Post #18,600 of 22,704

801evan

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Posts
1,638
Likes
853
Location
Philippines
I think this debate of whether DAVE can drive specific low-sensitivity headphones is confusing to most people and I think actually, everybody is right.

I bring my DAVE to the local head-fi meet sometimes and what I've found is that people listen to music (the same songs) with the same headphones at completely different volumes. I would say it varies by 25dB. I was shocked that a couple of people listen at 5dB less than me and a few others at 20dB louder than me (which I thought was painful to my ears). In fact, I would say most would listen at 5-10dB louder than me.

Hence, I'm not surprised when some people say they found that DAVE can't drive Susvara or Stealth while others say they can (since DAVE would start digitally clipping at +4dB). It comes down to how loud you like to listen.

That said, another thing I noticed at the local head-fi meets is that sometimes, DAVE can easily drive a headphone (even at 20dB louder than my preferred volume) but some people just like their preferred amplifier's (distorted?) sound. Like some headphone amplifier has higher output impedances so the bass would sound different with their low impedance headphones. But honestly, that's a rarer scenario. I found the former scenario to be much more prevalent.

I can't comment on Stealth or even Susvara since I've never heard them. But I can say that even for HE1000v2, which is more sensitive than Susvara, my DAVE can drive the HE1000v2 at comfortable volumes although occasionally, it'll be close to maxing out. But I know that at least 80% of my fellow local head-fi meet members would find that DAVE is not powerful enough to drive the HE1000v2 because they prefer to listen at a louder volume. I strongly suspect Susvara would be even more so.
To be clear, this is the same pair of headphones but different songs where people would listen -5dB and +20dB compared to you? If it's the same song same headphone then wow on the variance. If it's the same headphone but different personal tracks, the reason is the nominal loudness of different tracks. And the variance is around 14-25dB nominal level. One might be listening to EDM and the other listens to jazz and that
explains it.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top