CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
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Progisus

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Had one, tried everything to get the sound I was promised, couldn’t stomach +$2k more for cables, sold it. Put the money into a top server which could run hqplayer with many filtering options. Never looked back. And I am a Chord guy.. see signature.
 
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adrianm

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Had one, tried everything to get the sound I was promised, couldn’t stomach +$2k more for cables, sold it. Put the money into a top server which could run hqplayer with many filtering options. Never looked back. And I am a Chord guy.. see signature.
That sounds like a better idea to me :) i previously called snake oil on streamers and etc, but i was also sure the m-scaler was some holy grail so who knows, i'll try and get a streamer in for a home audition as well as giving Hqplayer a shot on my desktop.
 
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number1sixerfan

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aaaaand there it is, why no one dares say anything bad about Chord. The zealots line up.
Just to clarify, there have been others that didn't like the m-scaler, they just wanted to avoid this.

The only reason i've said anything is because of the crass elitism on this thread. People constantly try to convince others that YOU NEED all this crap, and then you need to modify it without having the faintest clue about what you're doing.
I'm not at all a Chord Zealot.. I'm pretty unbiased entirely when it comes to gear altogether. It's just equipment to me. And in most of these posts people aren't saying YOU HAVE to buy or you MUST try.. I believe it's your FOMO making it seem that way to you. Every gear improvement mentioned here can't completely be snake oil, but it seems that's how you respond to them all, whether you've heard it or not.

But as far as the mscaler specifically, I've said myself in multiple threads that it's a subtle (but welcome) improvement that still seems overpriced. It's not a must have for me in my book..
 
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adrianm

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Every gear improvement mentioned here can't completely be snake oil, but it seems that's how you respond to them all, whether you've heard it or not.
I'm not sure why people think i'm trolling , but with the risk of pissing everyone off again...having tested the m-scaler for myself i think the truth is somewhere down the middle:

Logically it makes sense that the more stuff you add into the chain (servers, reclockers, etc) the more Rf noise you inject, just like Rob said.
That said, if i were to get the m-scaler, finding that it sounds too "smooth " i can see how that noise, causing noise floor modulation and, ultimately, "harshness" would sound better to me. Guitars have less bite, growl, as well as vocalists.
It may sound "out there" but i recall at least one member swearing the m-scaler sounded better when run off battery/lpsu with a higher voltage than recommended, and Rob explaining that's just harshness. I'm sure you can find the post.

So this pretty much ties it all in a neat little bow for me, i think that :
Rob's right that it's noise ,and the people are right that it sounds better. Because on it's own i find it unnaturally smooth and if that was the stock Dave sound i would gladly pay the m-scaler price just to get rid of it.
That said, having listened more today, i can't say i don't find that tiniest bit of extra separation and depth, it's not on all tracks, mostly on live stuff, on stuff like Lorde and Billie Eilish i can hardly notice it and on stuff like Diana Krall, Norah Jones, i straight up hate how smoothed out it sounds. The improvements are also most noticeable with CF0, less so with the rest, but the veil remains. Even when they are there, they're so small i'm tired of even testing for them.
If the improvements were there on all tracks, with no weird softness veil and it didn't require other fixes it might justify the price. Either way the changes are more akin to what i would expect from a filter, not a standalone device.
Listening to Dave feels like i'm watching batman, with the m-scaler i feel like i'm watching lego batman .
 
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mbj666

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I personally find that cables, good mains and good isolation and recently good network isolation inc reclocking all make a positive difference. M scaler made a smaller improvement for me on hi res but much more noticeable on cd rips no doubt will demo it again but intend to try the innuos phoenix usb reclocker first
 
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Ciggavelli

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aaaaand there it is, why no one dares say anything bad about Chord. The zealots line up.
Just to clarify, there have been others that didn't like the m-scaler, they just wanted to avoid this.


The only reason i've said anything is because of the crass elitism on this thread. People constantly try to convince others that YOU NEED all this crap, and then you need to modify it without having the faintest clue about what you're doing.


I didn't say it's snake oil, i said i don't like the approach. Everything he said and people here called bull on was accurate and i'd take his word over yours any day.

I still have it, i still will but i doubt my impressions will change. Like i said, this isn't an arranged marriage. You say "improvements" , i say "changes". What can i say, maybe i don't have "golden ears like you lot "

It sounded worse than the Arya to me, why take them home instead of the Aryas?


That was all Rob, i had no idea what you're imagining , but makes sense :) It's like you buy a Tesla and try to make it into a Mustang when comparing it to the Bartok. Just buy the damn Mustang if you like it so much.

No, some of us aren't retired yet, and i hate forums for obvious reasons. Weren't you the guy telling Rob that DAVE sucks compared to Bartok?
What are you still doing here? Talk about trolling.

Indeed,best thing except for Dave :) there's plenty of people who own...everything, and prefer them. Even if there weren't, who cares? Just because Tyll crap on them a few months before admitting he's half deaf and retiring doesn't mean they suck :) Plenty of people who know what they're talking about like them, Guttenberg, Stereophile people, etc.
I'm sorry, next headphones i get will be something to please the head-fi elders.


I'll keep trying to hear that better detail and separation i'm supposed to hear. I did hear it first time i tested the M-scaler, with the TT2. I'm not with Dave now. It's just smoothing and nothing else.
I'd be delighted to find out there's something wrong and that's why i'm not hearing it. Not sure what setting might be missing. Soundstage only increases a bit in width with CF0, but by the same amount that does when using CF1.
If i keep upsampling to max and use CF1 as i usually do the soundstage actually diminishes. So what, they're mutually exclusive? I can't hear it doing anything different than crosfeed. It just pans instruments to the left, right.
CF2 honestly sounds about the same with it on or off, but CF3 does sound a bit blurrier with it off. So the only thing i do find it improving is CF0 (width and separation ) and CF3 (clarity).
Edif : nvm, just CF0, i still prefer CF3 with it off in most cases.
I never once said the Bartok was better or that the DAVE sucks. I was the one who liked to add a server and a reclocker to my DAVE, which you claimed was nonsense. :deadhorse:

I’m probably younger than you. I’m 38 years old:deadhorse:

For whatever reason, you feel your opinions are more valid than others. I get that people have different opinions and people hear things differently. But, for whatever reason, you try to push your opinions on everybody and then tell us we’re making things up when we disagree :deadhorse:
 
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iamoneagain

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I was trying to stay away from this thread but think might referring to me running the Mscaler at 16v vs 12v. The issue was at the time I was running my Mscaler off a very dirty Mac mini usb connection . This was affecting the sound and not giving an accurate assessment. I also preferred the HF filter on during that time.

Currently with a clean usb out thru Stack Audio Link II, the Mscaler sounds perfect at 12v and the Dave with HF filter off. I do find the Mscaler makes a noticeable improvement in all the things others have mentioned. Bass tightens up, blacker background, more depth, and life-like presentation. Someone described it as the Dave alone sounds like the best recording you’ve ever heard but with the Mscaler, it’s like you are no longer listening to a recording. I totally agree with this. Only reason I say Mscaler is not needed is listening to the best recording you ever heard is still something very special.

Sorry you are not hearing the same thing but don’t dismiss others as convincing themselves. I would like to sell it and just use Dave alone or HQPlayer but in my case it made a difference worth keeping. I bought this stuff with an inheritance and really don’t have the kind of money others do who are buying the Dave. I’m still using stock power cord and usb cable and have no plans to upgrade. The sound I’m getting is way beyond what I thought was possible.
 
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adrianm

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I never once said the Bartok was better or that the DAVE sucks. I was the one who liked to add a server and a reclocker to my DAVE, which you claimed was nonsense. :deadhorse:

I’m probably younger than you. I’m 38 years old:deadhorse:

For whatever reason, you feel your opinions are more valid than others. I get that people have different opinions and people hear things differently. But, for whatever reason, you try to push your opinions on everybody and then tell us we’re making things up when we disagree :deadhorse:
My bad, you were probably just having fun stirring up stuff with Rob, im 30 and not interested in arguing with you. I just posted my opinions which clearly don't match up with others. I've just pointed out that a lot of the stuff people here swear up and down make a huge difference are barely noticeable, debatable if actual improvements and yet some people act like it sounds 50% better than stock Dave.
People should test and come to their own conclusions, but i think a lot of this stuff gets taken for scripture just because people like you gang up on whoever doesn't agree and then act like victims.
 
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adrianm

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I do find the Mscaler makes a noticeable improvement in all the things others have mentioned. Bass tightens up, blacker background, more depth, and life-like presentation
This is what i've heard when i added the mains filter, no such changes with the M-scaler though.
If the Dave M-scaler combo is so good why is more than half this thread about people improving it with cables and batteries and linear power supplies?
I bought this stuff with an inheritance and really don’t have the kind of money others do who are buying the Dave. I’m still using stock power cord and usb cable and have no plans to upgrade. The sound I’m getting is way beyond what I thought was possible.
Sorry for loss and good for you. I can honestly say the same thing about Dave. When i first started wit this hobby I had just started working, Dave just came out and it felt about an attainable as a Ferrari to me. Mojo blew me away when i first heard it and i couldn't imagine something sounding better than that. I honestly didn't consider Hugo2 or TT2 enough of an upgrade over Mojo to justify the price, untill i heard Dave and it just became irrelevant. So yeah that's the kind of improvement i'm expecting when i spend this kind of money.
People can deny it all they want, there is obvious elitism in this thread, which is probably why i come off abrasive at times. People like to brag about their thousand dollar usb cables and etc in their signatures like they're making a huge difference are are something to aspire to.
At least if i spend 10k on a Rolex i can be honest with myself that it's jewelry and a status symbol thing, instead of pretending there's some magic quality to it that improves my life. And don't feel the need to go stick it under other people's noses.
 
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As for hqplayer vs m scaler. For me it wasn't even close. Hqplayer and its filters did something to the sound, but effect wasn't close to what is m scaler offering. Sound shapes were flatter not as rounded. Smoothness wasn't the same, only decay feeling seemed to be pretty close.
 
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As for hqplayer vs m scaler. For me it wasn't even close. Hqplayer and its filters did something to the sound, but effect wasn't close to what is m scaler offering. Sound shapes were flatter not as rounded. Smoothness wasn't the same, only decay feeling seemed to be pretty close.
I'm always happy to talk about HQPlayer v. Mscaler as I really respect both. You have to be careful in comparing the two.

They both set out to achieve a similar goal: high computational reconstruction of the original waveform. However, one is software and one is hardware. So, I've said this before, it's a little like comparing a Mac to Windows. A Mac, laptop or desktop, comes as a complete integrated hardware/OS unit. When you compare that to Windows, you have to be aware of the range of performance from an entry Nuc to a high power desktop PC. HQP needs a proper server (possibly, + endpoint) to make it a fair comparison.

Also, HQP is vastly deeper in terms of its array of filters, modulators, noise shapers, etc. It takes time to learn it. Properly set up, HQP is every bit as good MScaler. There are good reasons for going for either one depending on your system and how much you enjoy working on audio.
 
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adrianm

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I was trying to stay away from this thread but think might referring to me running the Mscaler at 16v vs 12v. The issue was at the time I was running my Mscaler off a very dirty Mac mini usb connection . This was affecting the sound and not giving an accurate assessment. I also preferred the HF filter on during that time.

Currently with a clean usb out thru Stack Audio Link II, the Mscaler sounds perfect at 12v and the Dave with HF filter off. I do find the Mscaler makes a noticeable improvement in all the things others have mentioned. Bass tightens up, blacker background, more depth, and life-like presentation. Someone described it as the Dave alone sounds like the best recording you’ve ever heard but with the Mscaler, it’s like you are no longer listening to a recording. I totally agree with this. Only reason I say Mscaler is not needed is listening to the best recording you ever heard is still something very special.

Sorry you are not hearing the same thing but don’t dismiss others as convincing themselves. I would like to sell it and just use Dave alone or HQPlayer but in my case it made a difference worth keeping. I bought this stuff with an inheritance and really don’t have the kind of money others do who are buying the Dave. I’m still using stock power cord and usb cable and have no plans to upgrade. The sound I’m getting is way beyond what I thought was possible.
You gave me an idea to test the m-scaler via usb instead of optical, out of my "noise" gaming pc with a chord c-line usb and jitterbug. The smoothness veil appears to be gone, but there is clearly more background noise than the optical connection. This leaves me a bit hopeful ,i guess it's not as cut and dried.
I'll continue testing tomorrow with the macbook and see what happens.
 
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You gave me an idea to test the m-scaler via usb instead of optical, out of my "noise" gaming pc with a chord c-line usb and jitterbug. The smoothness veil appears to be gone, but there is clearly more background noise than the optical connection. This leaves me a bit hopeful ,i guess it's not as cut and dried.
I'll continue testing tomorrow with the macbook and see what happens.
I also added the Poweradd because it was only $100 investment to see if it made any difference. Have no plans to spend another $1000 or so on Wave cables. I’d say it’s a very subtle difference. A hint more natural sound and highs more liquid sounding.

And as far as testing music, just try 44k/16bit files at first. Hires file don’t make as much difference. With mscaler in passthru music sounds thicker and might mistake that for more weight. Once enabled will find everything is separated but part of a whole.

Instead of thinking of it as a separate device just think of it as the sound Rob was trying to achieve with the upsampling inside. It’s basically the same but with higher taps bypassing the internal. Also make sure that video button on the left is not lit. That’s what got me when I first got it. Sounded worse and felt the way you do. Once I turned it off I heard the magic.

But in the end it’s possible the mscaler is not for you. And it also seems you’re itching to try out the Bartok. I’m completely happy with Dave/mscaler combo so I have no interest. Maybe after Covid and there are headphone meetups can hear it. I’ve heard people say the sound is just not for them but find the Chord sounds right. But as you can see, everyone hears something different.

For a good test album try The Blue Nile’s A Walk Across the Rooftops. The 2nd song Tinseltown in the Rain. Listen to the piano and bass. Basically with the mscaler it makes the album sound hires. It’s a very noticeable difference.
 
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I also added the Poweradd because it was only $100 investment to see if it made any difference. Have no plans to spend another $1000 or so on Wave cables. I’d say it’s a very subtle difference. A hint more natural sound and highs more liquid sounding.

And as far as testing music, just try 44k/16bit files at first. Hires file don’t make as much difference. With mscaler in passthru music sounds thicker and might mistake that for more weight. Once enabled will find everything is separated but part of a whole.

Instead of thinking of it as a separate device just think of it as the sound Rob was trying to achieve with the upsampling inside. It’s basically the same but with higher taps bypassing the internal. Also make sure that video button on the left is not lit. That’s what got me when I first got it. Sounded worse and felt the way you do. Once I turned it off I heard the magic.

But in the end it’s possible the mscaler is not for you. And it also seems you’re itching to try out the Bartok. I’m completely happy with Dave/mscaler combo so I have no interest. Maybe after Covid and there are headphone meetups can hear it. I’ve heard people say the sound is just not for them but find the Chord sounds right. But as you can see, everyone hears something different.

For a good test album try The Blue Nile’s A Walk Across the Rooftops. The 2nd song Tinseltown in the Rain. Listen to the piano and bass. Basically with the mscaler it makes the album sound hires. It’s a very noticeable difference.
I'm testing everything in flac on Tidal.
Well it's either defective or i'm using it wrong "D BNC 705.6" right? I assume there's no way something could be plugged in wrong.
Because it sounds EXACTLY the same on and off, no difference whatsoever. Both optical and usb.
In all my testing with it i have never noticed any changes in timbre, only slight positioning changes, a few degrees here and there, but nothing major, and not on all tracks.
A bit wider soundstage on "From Rags to Riches" and a bit more separation with CF0, less noticeable (if at all) with CF 1,2,3. And that's the most difference i've ever seen with the m-scaler in 2 days of testing, again, only on SOME tracks.
So either it's defective or i need Utopias lol. As a side note, with the Arya's it's even harder to spot any changes. I don't have any other headphones to test with.
 
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I'm testing everything in flac on Tidal.
Well it's either defective or i'm using it wrong "D BNC 705.6" right? I assume there's no way something could be plugged in wrong.
Because it sounds EXACTLY the same on and off, no difference whatsoever. Both optical and usb.
In all my testing with it i have never noticed any changes in timbre, only slight positioning changes, a few degrees here and there, but nothing major, and not on all tracks.
A bit wider soundstage on "From Rags to Riches" and a bit more separation with CF0, less noticeable (if at all) with CF 1,2,3. And that's the most difference i've ever seen with the m-scaler in 2 days of testing, again, only on SOME tracks.
So either it's defective or i need Utopias lol. As a side note, with the Arya's it's even harder to spot any changes. I don't have any other headphones to test with.
Make sure the furthest left button is off. That’s the pass through. But, yeah dbnc 705 is correct. You can get the full 768 with 24/96 songs
 
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