Chord Electronics - Blu Mk. 2 - The Official Thread
Oct 26, 2017 at 5:18 PM Post #1,861 of 4,904
If you raise a problem to a group of men, then you're gonna get solutions whether you want them or not :).

I'm surprised that you have such low expecations of your dealer, but maybe they do things differently in whatever country you're in.

The North West of England. No, I don’t have a particularly high opinion of dealers. In my experience they’re more interested in selling you something you don’t have, and generally talk piffle, anything which might get you to put your hand in your pocket. In fairness, I’m still not sure there’s anything my dealer can do. Either he listens and says he can hear what I hear, which I know already, or he says he can’t, which is irrelevant because I can. I know the problem isn’t the rest of my equipment because Ive done A/B’s between BluDave and Dave alone on headphones: Augioquest Nighthawks, the same as Rob uses, which are hardly bright, and the glare is present. It’s even present on the Dave alone if the Blu II is connected, which suggest to me the Blu II is sending RFI into the Dave.
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 5:38 PM Post #1,862 of 4,904
I'm waiting on more reasonably priced sets of BNC cables to arrive for testing (as little as $100 USD each). I'm of the opinion that it's not just about RF noise but also HF smearing which can present as harshness and so this is where the quality of the dielectric comes in. I am particularly interested in the following BNC cables as they utilize a proprietary "Airlok" dielectric with a dielectric coefficient of only 1.4 (as low as cotton).

https://www.vhaudio.com/pulsar-ag.html

They're more expensive at $250 for 0.5m but they also come with a 60-day money back guarantee. I'll let you know how they turn out. I should receive them shortly.
@jelt2359 from PMs we’ve shared seems to be quite pleased with his Phasure BNC cables which sell for 263 euros for the pair(not cheap but less expensive than the Habst cables that Romaz has). Phasure BTW also makes the Lush usb cable that many audiophiles (including both Romaz and myself ) have in our systems.
 
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Oct 26, 2017 at 5:59 PM Post #1,863 of 4,904
@jelt2359 from PMs we’ve shared seems to be quite pleased with his Phasure BNC cables which sell for 263 euros for the pair(not cheap but less expensive than the Habst cables that Romaz has). Phasure BTW also makes the Lush usb cable that many audiophiles (including both Romaz and myself ) have in our systems.

Looks like an interesting option and noteworthy because @jelt2359 is pleased with it. What is interesting is the following statement: "this cable is made to filter nothing whatsoever." With my Habst BNC cables, they offer no filtering either and so this is clearly an approach that is different from the ferrite approach. Habst cables operate on the principle of utilizing high purity conductors, an air-based dielectric and extensive shielding but no filtering.
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 6:02 PM Post #1,864 of 4,904
It’s even present on the Dave alone if the Blu II is connected, which suggest to me the Blu II is sending RFI into the Dave.
Do you have an early curved-glass DAVE? I'm wondering if there are two versions of DAVE with minor internal differences (Roy, Romaz's, DAVE is a curved-glass model and he seems to have a lot of trouble with "digital glare"). Honestly, it seems exceedingly unlikely that there has been an internal change to DAVE, but I've got to mention it. Try to borrow a "new" DAVE from your dealer to compare with your old DAVE?

Bearing in mind that my DAVE (flat glass), with galvanic isolation on USB, is fearsomely sensitive to RFI, to the extent that I'm using 40 ferrites on the USB cable, I'm afraid to say I would guess the fault lies entirely in the RF noise transmitted into DAVE via the BNC cables.

I think everyone with a DAVE (or any other Chord DAC) is forced to use heavy RF filtering on electrical digital signal cables feeding into DAVE. I would go so far as to say that the DAC isn't working correctly unless there's a vast amount of RF filtering on the digital cable.

If you're especially sensitive to "digital glare", then it simply means you should be using more ferrites. There's no way that 10 can be enough on each BNC cable, given that 20 on the USB cable are not enough.

DAVE was designed for Rob's home system and he doesn't seem to have a problem with RF. Everyone else does, though.

Now playing: Tim Buckley - Once I Was
 
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Oct 26, 2017 at 6:10 PM Post #1,865 of 4,904
i tried the stock cables and thought they were Ok but ultimately had Moon Audio make me up a pair and I have been happy with the results
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 6:11 PM Post #1,866 of 4,904
Looks like an interesting option and noteworthy because @jelt2359 is pleased with it. What is interesting is the following statement: "this cable is made to filter nothing whatsoever." With my Habst BNC cables, they offer no filtering either and so this is clearly an approach that is different from the ferrite approach. Habst cables operate on the principle of utilizing high purity conductors, an air-based dielectric and extensive shielding but no filtering.

If it’s this one, it’s 265 euros per cable, not for a pair:

https://stordiau.com/products/blaxius-75-ohm-interlink?variant=49611520085
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 6:16 PM Post #1,867 of 4,904
Do you have an early curved-glass DAVE? I'm wondering if there are two versions of DAVE with minor internal differences (Roy, Romaz's, DAVE is a curved-glass model and he seems to have a lot of trouble with "digital glare"). Honestly, it seems exceedingly unlikely that there has been an internal change to DAVE, but I've got to mention it. Try to borrow a "new" DAVE from your dealer to compare with your old DAVE?

Bearing in mind that my DAVE (flat glass), with galvanic isolation on USB, is fearsomely sensitive to RFI, to the extent that I'm using 40 ferrites on the USB cable, I'm afraid to say I would guess the fault lies entirely in the RF noise transmitted into DAVE via the BNC cables.

I think everyone with a DAVE (or any other Chord DAC) is forced to use heavy RF filtering on electrical digital signal cables feeding into DAVE. I would go so far as to say that the DAC isn't working correctly unless there's a vast amount of RF filtering on the digital cable.

If you're especially sensitive to "digital glare", then it simply means you should be using more ferrites. There's no way that 10 can be enough on each BNC cable, given that 20 on the USB cable are not enough.

DAVE was designed for Rob's home system and he doesn't seem to have a problem with RF. Everyone else does, though.

Now playing: Tim Buckley - Once I Was

I wasn’t even aware there were two “editions” of the Dave, but the glass on mine is flat. Whether the differences are anything other than cosmetic, I cannot say.

I don’t use any ferrites on my USB cable, and I can detect no RFI characteristics unless connected to the Blu II. In fact, it’s the smoothest, darkest sound I’ve ever heard - just like the real thing.Perhaps, by some perverse logic, that means that it’s my Dave that isn’t working :) If so, not much I can do about that.
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 6:27 PM Post #1,868 of 4,904
Do you have an early curved-glass DAVE? I'm wondering if there are two versions of DAVE with minor internal differences (Roy, Romaz's, DAVE is a curved-glass model and he seems to have a lot of trouble with "digital glare"). Honestly, it seems exceedingly unlikely that there has been an internal change to DAVE, but I've got to mention it. Try to borrow a "new" DAVE from your dealer to compare with your old DAVE?

Bearing in mind that my DAVE (flat glass), with galvanic isolation on USB, is fearsomely sensitive to RFI, to the extent that I'm using 40 ferrites on the USB cable, I'm afraid to say I would guess the fault lies entirely in the RF noise transmitted into DAVE via the BNC cables.

I think everyone with a DAVE (or any other Chord DAC) is forced to use heavy RF filtering on electrical digital signal cables feeding into DAVE. I would go so far as to say that the DAC isn't working correctly unless there's a vast amount of RF filtering on the digital cable.

If you're especially sensitive to "digital glare", then it simply means you should be using more ferrites. There's no way that 10 can be enough on each BNC cable, given that 20 on the USB cable are not enough.

DAVE was designed for Rob's home system and he doesn't seem to have a problem with RF. Everyone else does, though.

Now playing: Tim Buckley - Once I Was

Of interest, I have not had glare issues with my DAVE in general. Having compared the stock USB cable against my optical cable, glare was not a problem with either on my DAVE. I also had no problem with WireWorld's Platinum Starlight 7 USB cable which utilizes solid silver although I had major brightness issues with their Silver Starlight 7 USB cable which utilizes silver-plated copper. Same thing with WireWorld's Starlight CAT8 Ethernet cable. If I had previously doubted that Ethernet cables made a difference, this silver-clad copper cable removed all doubt as it sounded annoyingly bright and fatiguing. This is what I mean about each individual having different sensitivities.
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 9:49 PM Post #1,869 of 4,904
If it’s this one, it’s 265 euros per cable, not for a pair:

https://stordiau.com/products/blaxius-75-ohm-interlink?variant=49611520085

They are 250 euros per pair excluding shipping and VAT. Interestingly they were built to be used as analog cables as well so they come standard with bnc to rca adaptors, and even with rca female adaptors that are true 75 ohm in case you need to modify your component.

They are the same price up to 4m- any length is the same price.

I don't have as much experience with BNC, but I have a friend who bought them with me, having owned Ansuz's top DTC BNC cable (goes for ~US$19K each, double that for a pair), and he says the Phasure BNC is 80% of the Ansuz. Price for performance ratio wise, that's good enough for me.
 
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Oct 26, 2017 at 9:56 PM Post #1,870 of 4,904
Wow. I’m saying this with complete respect (let he who is without a $12k DAC cast the first stone), but in grad school days I was dunking circuit in liquid helium and measuring 10s of electrons with high reliability and low noise, and we didn’t use $8400 cables.

I’m glad for anyone that finds the magical combo of kit that works for them (regardless of price), but I would hope there are pragmatic alternatives to get to the same place.
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 10:39 PM Post #1,872 of 4,904
They are 250 euros per pair excluding shipping and VAT. Interestingly they were built to be used as analog cables as well so they come standard with bnc to rca adaptors, and even with rca female adaptors that are true 75 ohm in case you need to modify your component.

They are the same price up to 4m- any length is the same price.

I don't have as much experience with BNC, but I have a friend who bought them with me, having owned ansuz's top diamond BNC cable (goes for US$8400 each), and he says this is actually rather close, but still behind. Price for performance ratio wise, that's good enough for me.

It's Diamond or DTC?
 
Oct 26, 2017 at 11:09 PM Post #1,873 of 4,904
DTC. Edited, it actually goes for even more than Diamond.
 
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Oct 26, 2017 at 11:26 PM Post #1,874 of 4,904
Yup, DTC is 1 step up but quite troublesome as it need another box. And price wise is much lower from what you listed if you get from right person.
 
Oct 27, 2017 at 12:20 AM Post #1,875 of 4,904
Unfortunately, I’m the exception. I prefer Dave alone to BluDave, which I appreciate is heresy.

The addition of Blu II increases detail, depth and soundstage. Unfortunately, in my case it also introduces an unacceptable glare - on both CDs and files via USB - which I’ve not been able to eredacte completely, even though I’ve tried everything I can think of. The most affective solution is to use ferrite clamps, since I suspect the BNC connections are the cause. Even with ten per cable, there is still a trace of glare which manifests itself on piano music where the upper registers take on an artificial, glassy quality. The problem might be with my Dave, which is more susceptible to these things than others, but since I’ve owned it for about 18 months, there’s little I can do about that. I will probably sell my Blu II as I prefer the warmer, more accurate rendition of timbre on the Dave alone, provided the Blu II is not connected.

Incidentally, has it not struck anyone else as odd that it’s recommended that users of the BluDave combo use ferrite clamps to eliminate RFI, which is generated by the signal itself. It strikes me that this may not be the optimum means of transferring the signal between the two units.

Thank you! You just saved me £8,000.

But seriously, this indicates how important it is for one to get a home loaner of the Blu2 from my dealer before writing the cheque...

I also look forward to a fully optical connected mscaler... and once we totally eliminate RFI issues, are we going to move on to issues of quantum entaglement! The mind boggles..
 

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