Chord Electronics - Blu Mk. 2 - The Official Thread
Sep 10, 2018 at 3:21 PM Post #4,426 of 4,904
I can't understand people questioning the sound quality of the Blu 2 and preferring the Dave on its own. My Dave sounds broken compared to the Dave and Blu 2. The depth, emotion, resolution of the bass, timing, dynamics, everything comes to another level with the Blu 2 and is much more enjoyable. I am using Oyaide 1.2 metre DB-510 BNC cables with 10 x 1 GHz and 10 x 2.5 GHz Wurth ferrites on each cable. I disagree with the Hi-Fi+ review. Bass is deeper but more importantly has texture and is far better resolved than with the Dave on its own. There absolutely no brightness. I only listen at low levels. So the extra dynamics and life make a huge difference for me.

Not that unfair, the Blu2 upscales to 705 KHZ bit rate, so why not ? That is the purpose of Blu2 !

The the hi-res through blu2 was the best, as compared to hi-res alone on Blu2

DSD filter on Blu2 is better than the one in Dave (although I will admit I didn't try switch to the DSD + filter on Dave, will have to re-do this when I get the chance)

Of course one should buy the hi-res version if available, but if not, the Blu2 does a very good job of upscaling up to hi-res file sound.

The usual caveat does apply, a hi-res version of a bad recording will still be.... a bad recording....

Regarding DSD, for me this was the only scenario whereby the Dave on its own ever came close to sounding like the Blu Mk2. Playing DSDs with the Dave in DSD+ mode, compared to DSD via Blu Mk 2. Blu was still better, but for me not by as big a margin as the other formats.
 
Sep 10, 2018 at 4:04 PM Post #4,427 of 4,904
As a matter of interest, why didn’t you read it? It only takes a few minutes, about as long as posting a link to it.

Just busy busy. I have now read it.

To be honest I am rather non plussed at the comments criticising bass with the Blu2. I have found the articulation and detail of the bass to be a wonderful aspect of the Blu2. But at the risk of using the f word, ferrites make a big difference to the bass.

I’ve compared the BluDave against the Dave using the headphone output of the Dave and employing different BNC cables and power leads. The results have been the same each time - glare and reduced bass with the Blu2. Of course, other equipment can affect what’s going on, but that doesn’t mean that it will, and in such tests I often used just CD and with nothing else connected.

You are of course a living, breathing, walking glare detector but for most of us a fully ferrited Blu2 has no discernible glare and huge bass. In fact if I ever go back to just Dave by itself it sounds broken in comparison. I doubt though that we will ever agree about the Blu2.
 
Sep 10, 2018 at 4:16 PM Post #4,428 of 4,904
Just busy busy. I have now read it.

To be honest I am rather non plussed at the comments criticising bass with the Blu2. I have found the articulation and detail of the bass to be a wonderful aspect of the Blu2. But at the risk of using the f word, ferrites make a big difference to the bass.



You are of course a living, breathing, walking glare detector but for most of us a fully ferrited Blu2 has no discernible glare and huge bass. In fact if I ever go back to just Dave by itself it sounds broken in comparison. I doubt though that we will ever agree about the Blu2.

In my experience, ferrites make a difference to the glare, but don’t have any affect on the bass, or absence therof in comparison to the Dave. At least there’s one other person who agrees with me on the bass issue. Also, I agree with the reviewer - the soundstage is pushed forward with the Blu2 in chain, though that might be a consequence of it being deeper.

Obviously, myself and Rafael Tode’s - who also plays violin with the Allegri String Quartet and therefore knows what live music sounds like - are just a couple of cranks.
 
Sep 10, 2018 at 7:48 PM Post #4,429 of 4,904
Just busy busy. I have now read it.

To be honest I am rather non plussed at the comments criticising bass with the Blu2. I have found the articulation and detail of the bass to be a wonderful aspect of the Blu2. But at the risk of using the f word, ferrites make a big difference to the bass.

You are of course a living, breathing, walking glare detector but for most of us a fully ferrited Blu2 has no discernible glare and huge bass. In fact if I ever go back to just Dave by itself it sounds broken in comparison. I doubt though that we will ever agree about the Blu2.

I fully agree with this. No discernible glare and huge bass describes the Blu 2 perfectly. But I also have good digital cables with ferrites.
 
Sep 11, 2018 at 10:15 AM Post #4,431 of 4,904
In my experience, ferrites make a difference to the glare, but don’t have any affect on the bass, or absence therof in comparison to the Dave. At least there’s one other person who agrees with me on the bass issue. Also, I agree with the reviewer - the soundstage is pushed forward with the Blu2 in chain, though that might be a consequence of it being deeper.

Obviously, myself and Rafael Tode’s - who also plays violin with the Allegri String Quartet and therefore knows what live music sounds like - are just a couple of cranks.

I reckon something else must be going on. Are you using the 1 GHz and 2.5GHz Wurth ferrites as recommended by Rob? The 1 GHz ones should be at the Dave end of the BNC cable. I know that in my system bass is much improved. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the sound of real live instruments, but on the few occasions that I have heard them I have been struct by the dynamics. This is where most high end systems sound flat in comparison.
 
Sep 11, 2018 at 11:12 AM Post #4,432 of 4,904
I reckon something else must be going on. Are you using the 1 GHz and 2.5GHz Wurth ferrites as recommended by Rob? The 1 GHz ones should be at the Dave end of the BNC cable. I know that in my system bass is much improved. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the sound of real live instruments, but on the few occasions that I have heard them I have been struct by the dynamics. This is where most high end systems sound flat in comparison.

I have tried all number of ferrites, though I don’t know which frequency range they address, and they all make a difference to the amount of glare, as do carbon cables. I have tried Nick’s cables, which I understand are optimised for the Blu2 Dave connection, and they make a substantial difference to glare. The missing bass is not something that ferrites seem to address. Let me clear: instruments like a bass guitar and double bass can sound more pronounced through the Blu2, but I think this is due to an emphasis on leading edges. Much of what you hear in such instruments actually takes place in the mid and upper range, so if you turn up the treble you can hear greater definition - they sound “tighter”. There are of course, deeper tones that also form part of their timbre, and that of other instruments such as a piano, and that kind of low resonance goes missing through the Blu2. For me, and it would seem for at least one other, it’s not that difficult to hear the difference. The tonal spread is titled much like what Rob has described when artificial additives are introduced.

Again, I should emphasise that I can only report as I hear, and I fully acknowledge that there are many fully satisfied Blu2 users out there, and that many, like Rob, regard the glare issue as relatively minor. Indeed, I don’t think it’s even mentioned in the review, perhaps because the reviewer doesn’t seem to have tried ferrited cables for comparison. This might be due to his feeling obliged to report what he heard in terms of what a prospective purchaser would buy rather than as modded.
 
Sep 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM Post #4,433 of 4,904
dave/blu2 is better than dave alone...that is pretty clear....is it perfect no..is anything perfect no
 
Sep 11, 2018 at 3:11 PM Post #4,435 of 4,904
I have tried Nick’s cables, which I understand are optimised for the Blu2 Dave connection, and they make a substantial difference to glare.

Thanks for that comment. I may not have convinced you to continue using the MScaler with my cables (or more accurately to use the MScaler at all) but Jay at Audio Bacon was convinced and bought a pair of my WAVE cables for himself a couple of weeks after the Audio Bacon bnc review. Chuffed about that. :relaxed:
 
Sep 12, 2018 at 3:47 AM Post #4,436 of 4,904
We can all agree that timbre and tonal is not Chord strong suits. What Chord Dave + Blu2 excells is separation, dynamic, depth, soundstaging and details. None of the impression mentioned keyword like timbre, tonal, image density, flow, timing which i believe DAC like MSB select 2, Aries Cerat excel at.

I am afraid I disagree most vigorously (and it would be expected that I would disagree!).

The key strengths that M scaler and Chord DACs have is timbre variation, timing and the perception of flow, but the key concept is variation - something which other DACs are in my opinion are poor at. Sure other DACs give the initial impression of more warmth with an unnatural soft sound - or other DACs have a sharp hard edge and can sound impressive before your headache starts... But real life music is about variations, sometimes sounding rich and smooth sometimes sounding bright and fast. It is in the variations that musicality lies, as getting emotional to the music requires that the system is expressive with a wide as possible sound palette.

As regards timbre variations, there are two principle issues that limit the variation in timbre. These are noise floor modulation, and secondly transient timing. Noise floor modulation is pretty obvious; noise is hiss, and sounds bright. If you add some noise that is modulated by the instrument, then that instrument will sound brighter, as the brain can't tell the difference from the instrument and the noise that is dependent on the instrument. And this noise singing with the wanted instrument is noise floor modulation. All of my DACs have no measurable noise floor modulation; every other DAC on the planet has by comparison huge levels of noise floor modulation, so a sax for example will sound unnaturally bright. To compensate for this, DAC designers unwittingly use other aberrations to restore the balance; a softening here, and a dose of low frequency 2nd harmonic there, followed by some power envelope amplitude modulation, to give a fat sound. These tricks I can very easily hear and identify. So in terms of noise floor modulation, Chord DACs have unequalled performance, so that a sax will, with the right ancillaries, sound rich and dark like a sax should do, and of course I have published the measurements that prove that my DACs have no measurable noise floor modulation.

The second issue is transient timing. Transients are an essential psycho-acoustic cue for timbre and to recognise an instrument; remove the transients and it's much more difficult to tell the timbre and what the instrument is. The problem with digital audio is the brain requires transients to be very accurately reproduced in time; if there is timing uncertainty (too early or too late, constantly changing with signal) the the brain can't properly perceive timbre accurately. The only way one can reconstruct the timing of transients perfectly is by using a sinc interpolation filter (known as a Whittaker-Shannon interpolation filter); and the M scaler is identical to an ideal sinc function to better than 16 bits; this means the M scaler will reconstruct the analogue signal to better than 16 bits, preserving the original timing information. Conventional filters are poor, being only the same as sinc to a 2 or 3 bits level. Using the M scaler provides a huge increase in the timbre variation of instruments; and you can not reproduce this level of timbre accuracy unless you use 1M taps, and use a sinc accurate filter. No other DAC comes anywhere close to this performance; and there are no short cuts possible, no magic way round the problem.

As to flow, or the perception of timing and rhythm, then the M scaler is very interesting - as it can sound very fast with heightened tempo; or it can sound slower with a natural sense of flow. The reason we have these two aspects is because there are two different mechanisms going on, and this can affect one's perception of tempo.

The first one is fairly obvious - being able to hear the starting and stopping of notes. When we reconstruct transients without any timing errors (that is transients to early then later too late) then it becomes easier for the brain to hear the starting and stopping of notes - and then things sound clearer, faster and sharper. With everything else being equal, then the tempo becomes faster - and you can hear this effect easily with dance music or electronica.

The second mechanism for altering the perception of tempo is about instrument separation and focus. One aspect of the M scaler is improved instrument separation, as one instrument does not modulate the timing of transients of another instrument. We hear this with a greater sense of separation, with instruments having greater power and authority. A loud instrument really stands out; and does not modulate other instruments. With conventional digital, we have a dominance effect, where one's attention is constantly switching to the loudest instrument; with an M scaler this problem is vastly reduced, so you can perceive quiet instruments when a louder instrument plays. This dominance effect, together with timing being modulated by other instruments, means that the sense of flow is interrupted; the music sounds mechanical and disjointed. When you use the M scaler, this problem reduces dramatically, so the music flows much more naturally. Also, because it reduces the dominance effect, the tempo actually sounds slower. Indeed, I once demoed the M scaler to a non audiophile, and they came back with something surprising - it sounded slower with the M scaler, and this was the effect they perceived the most.

Being able to reproduce timbre variations correctly absolutely requires sinc function accuracy filters, and this means 1M taps. Being able to reproduce flow and tempo accurately also requires 1M taps; so I do not agree that other DACs are capable of better tempo or timbre variations. And I have scientific facts to back up my assertions; it is a fact that we can only recover the original analogue waveform to guaranteed 16 bits accuracy with a sinc function and a million taps - something all other DACs completely fail to do.
 
Sep 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM Post #4,437 of 4,904
Much of what you hear in such instruments actually takes place in the mid and upper range, so if you turn up the treble you can hear greater definition - they sound “tighter”. There are of course, deeper tones that also form part of their timbre, and that of other instruments such as a piano, and that kind of low resonance goes missing through the Blu2.

I do hope this is incorrect when using the Blu2 with Dave, i have an order for MS to use with Dave and do not want it changing its sound signature. However what you describe its not unfamiliar as i felt something similar with H2 so kept with my TT. I appreciate what Rob has said above and maybe he is correct, but ive put my system together for enjoyment not to be correct.
 
Sep 12, 2018 at 12:01 PM Post #4,438 of 4,904
I do hope this is incorrect when using the Blu2 with Dave, i have an order for MS to use with Dave and do not want it changing its sound signature. However what you describe its not unfamiliar as i felt something similar with H2 so kept with my TT. I appreciate what Rob has said above and maybe he is correct, but ive put my system together for enjoyment not to be correct.

Don't pay too much attention to Crgreen (sorry Colin, no hard feelings I hope). I have met him. He is a really nice guy and has a great system. He has a vast amount of knowledge and experience of music. But his and my assessments of the sound of Blu2 are poles apart (and probably 99.9% of everyone else as well). I think your decision to get an MScaler is a safe one and you will enjoy the sound immensly.
 
Sep 12, 2018 at 12:03 PM Post #4,439 of 4,904
I do hope this is incorrect when using the Blu2 with Dave, i have an order for MS to use with Dave and do not want it changing its sound signature. However what you describe its not unfamiliar as i felt something similar with H2 so kept with my TT. I appreciate what Rob has said above and maybe he is correct, but ive put my system together for enjoyment not to be correct.

Rob’s comments were directed at somebody else’s post, not mine, with which I also disagreed. I imagine however, that Rob would also take issue with what I have said - he cannot hear what I do.

It’s impossible to say in advance whether the issues I mention will be replicated by the HMS. Apparently, the glare issue has been addressed by internal ferrites on the BNC connection. My advise would be to wait and listen to the HMS in your system before commitng to a purchase - I wish I’d done that with the Blu2 - but I understand that many are sufficiently confident in ithe m-scaler technology to order in advance. There are a number of benefits with the m-scaler, and if the maximum retrieval of information is your highest priority, I’m sure you won’t be disappointed.
 
Sep 12, 2018 at 12:05 PM Post #4,440 of 4,904
I do hope this is incorrect when using the Blu2 with Dave, i have an order for MS to use with Dave and do not want it changing its sound signature. However what you describe its not unfamiliar as i felt something similar with H2 so kept with my TT. I appreciate what Rob has said above and maybe he is correct, but ive put my system together for enjoyment not to be correct.
If your now system is dependent on a more «incorrect» source for maximum enjoyment, there may be some potential for improvements elsewhere. Just saying.
 

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