Chord 2Go & 2Yu Wired/Wireless Network streamer and S/PDIF adaptor - Official thread
Feb 15, 2020 at 7:39 AM Post #121 of 6,287
The ipod touch is an iphone without the cellular. I strongly recommend buying and dedicating a 7th generation ipod touch just for roon as it beats the iphone if you decide this is the path you want to take. The links below explain all. A 7th generation ipad touch 32gb sells for £200. Comparing other solutions against 2go2yu is a natural progression.

Mini report: High fidelity source on a budget. Part 1:

First of all yes it can be done and more importantly you don't need a PhD in theoretical physics or a jet set disposable income. Here's how i did it.

My normal usage is optical out of my late 2013 imac core which contains a 512 gb ssd and a quad core i5. The problem here is that even though it's an isolated source the computer is used for surfing, watching videos and so on. This made me uncomfortable having it directly connected to the HMS. It's still a relatively noisy machine and with ethernet wired in as it's the roon core we have the problem of the optical no longer being fully galvanically isolated due to capacitive coupling. I tried quite hard to find a better solution: one that improves on SQ with the imac having to remain wired in ethernet as roon core and a separate wifi endpoint. Funnily enough removing the ethernet connection eliminates the problem of capacitive coupling but then we have a roon core that's on wifi and amazingly a wired in imac did sound quite a lot better than on wifi as a roon core. I learnt the core communicates bidirectionally with my virgin router and roon endpoint which supplies an internet speed in excess of 200mps. Some very basic experiments (compared to some of the contraptions displayed here). If my imac does optical but needs to be wired in how do we deal with capacitive coupling? Surely optical is the reference so any attempt to improve on it would be in vain.

1) Mac mini optical out roon endpoint-impossible to manage on a daily basis without a monitor but would in theory do optical solving the catch 22 situation i found myself in with the core.

2) Google chromecast all problems solved? Core wired in with CCA emitting optical into HMS on wifi with no issues regarding capacitive coupling. Problem both with stock psu and ifi i power 5v it sounded like schitt. Compared to the core optical out wired or not the CCA presented itself as flat and totally 2D sounding.

3) Ipad air 2019 sounds exactly the same as core optical out. Nice true tone screen but with usb out to HMS no incentive to constantly charge/discharge with no increase in SQ.

4) Imac core usb to HMS no real gain in SQ plus the knowledge knowing the HMS is electrically connected to a mains powered computer.

5) Multi hundred/thousand pound streamers are all mains powered anyway plus out of my reach financially. I'm sure some of them sound excellent though. Pi's and Allo's present too much of a learning curve (Rob also mentioned how microrendu added RF noise) so i'm looking for plug and forget. Usb to optical hi end convertors (DDC's) are not really needed that contain precision femtoclocks as chord dacs and upscalers correct jitter up to 1000 times of magnitudes of error from optical sources. Just when i was about to give up i read about Rob and his excellent results using a simple motorola phone on battery as a perfect usb source. In conjunction with usb galvanic isolation which sounds very improved on usb HMS i had a new avenue to explore and i was reinvigorated. I want perfection on a budget remember. A battery powered source can't be beaten IMHO. Apparently even when a computer does optical out RF or stray currents can affect the ground plane of the dac or HMS as i understand. Another reason for me to search for a new source.

Part 2:

In effect i'm copying Rob. He designed the hardware so he must know the optimal implementations. An iphone/ipad/ipod touch as roon endpoint when using it's own internal dac (inbuilt speakers and headphone) maxes out at 48khz. Anything above that is downsampled. However with an Apple CCK 3 adaptor used with a lightning cable you can do up to 768 khz and DSD 256 with a maximum of 24 bits per sample rate. This means if you upsample in roon you don't get the purple lossless bit perfect signal however if you leave it at 44.1khz untouched and pass it through the apple ipad/iphone/ipod touch you do get a purple light lossless signal path which is bit perfect. You also get MQA to 96khz passing through to the HMS if you so want which the HMS does not need. Even better an ipod touch 32 gb which is basically an iphone with the cellular stripped out sells for £199 and after studying some roon users who had used it as a roon endpoint i clicked and collected one from Argos last Thursday.

Stunning little device but i quickly realised that on wifi i'm getting about 4.5 hours and not the 30-40 hours advertised which is with wifi off. Initial SQ on battery into HMS (using the Apple CCK3 adaptor connects the ipod touch to the HMS via usb) was stunning with stock usb cable. I deleted all but the most important apps, disabled passcode access, set screen to auto lock after 5 minutes (which means it plays with the screen off just totally dark conserving battery life). All notifications off and so on spending two hours studying again and eliminating anything and everything that consumed power so that only roon played nicely.

The roon remote app on the Apple app store clearly lists the ipod touch and took about a minute to load roon remote. The ipod has a lithium ion battery with a size of around 1000mAh and the screen is so small it becomes almost impossible to use your finger to select roon settings. No problem you just select private zone 'off' on the ipod and hey presto now i can control it using my imac as a dedicated audio zone. If it disconnects from roon (due to the screen effectively being turned off) when the music stops just press the home button and tap the roon app and you're reconnected in a few seconds.

The final step was that i needed a portable powerbank with a large capacity of 20,000mAh to give me enough juice to power up the ipod multiple times but one that recharges quickly. I settled on one by Energizer which recharges in just 2.5 hours and has a battery power percentage LED. By starting with a fully charged ipod touch (which gives 4.5 hours wifi and a fully charged powerbank) and rotating the charge/discharge cycles i calculated i can get an amazing 50 hours or so of playtime continuously on wifi on the stripped down ipod. Of course in practice you would never listen for 50 hours non-stop but 12 hours with short breaks is common for me. Incredible. Rob recommended low power sources and AFAIK there are very few transports or sources out there with such low power as with my set up. A low powered laptop on wifi as a roon bridge didn't really offer me much either as i had previously tried a lower end HP laptop bought new dedicated for that purpose which i later sold.

The ipod touch on battery gives three distinct advantages as far as SQ goes. 1) Micro/macro details magnified in the music equating to hearing new sounds in tracks i thought i knew well. 2) Amazing instrument separation and 3) A type of clarity and musicality in the overall presentation of the music which has improved my HMS/TT2 set up by at least 20% in SQ compared to optical from my imac. Finally i have an Anker power port 5 into which the powerbank and ipod touch are plugged into at the end of listening ensuring fully charged devices when i next listen to music. Both devices charge fully then go dormant with the powerport 5. Of course during listening everything is on battery (ipod/powerbank only).

As for audioscience giving the chromecast such high praise i find that hard to understand. Thankyou for reading about my search for a high performance source for HMS on a budget. (Three days straight on this mini project but paying off now though). Total cost £260 for the ipod touch 32GB and the powerbank and a certified usb cable being delivered from Germany as i could not find any in the UK. A new breath of life has found its way into my HMS/TT2 system. I hope other headfier's give this tiny magical minimum fuss source a try and implement it as i've done. Cheers MK.

Some images: High fidelity source on a budget. Part 3:









Just turned siri off too. :slight_smile:
 
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Feb 15, 2020 at 7:56 AM Post #122 of 6,287
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The ipod touch is an iphone without the cellular. I strongly recommend buying and dedicating a 7th generation ipod touch just for roon as it beats the iphone if you decide this is the path you want to take. The links below explain all. A 7th generation ipad touch 32gb sells for £200. Comparing other solutions against 2go2yu is a natural progression.
Thanks. I happen to have an iPhone, so I’ll just give it a go with that, and take it from there.
 
Feb 15, 2020 at 8:49 AM Post #124 of 6,287
Bi-directional traffic over a mini home LAN. I haven't studied poly enough in great depth. I'm understanding though. Will you be buying 2go2yu? I'm using an ipod touch as roon endpoint now. It's always roon "on" as i set it's screen to auto lock-never. Deja blue.


That‘s interesting that you can turn off the auto lock on the ipod. On Iphone (ios 12.4) you are forced to have it lock at a maximum of 5 minutes, which means a trip up to the iphone every time you want to browse for a new album, instead of staying relaxed in the listening chair. I agree it does sound good. It will be interesting to hear some comparisons between the ipod roon endpoint and the 2go/2u from those that buy them.

Edit - it seems I can’t set my iphone autolock to ‘Never’ because it is a work phone and they have disabled that option for security reasons.
 
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Feb 15, 2020 at 9:27 AM Post #125 of 6,287
That‘s interesting that you can turn off the auto lock on the ipod. On Iphone (ios 12.4) you are forced to have it lock at a maximum of 5 minutes, which means a trip up to the iphone every time you want to browse for a new album, instead of staying relaxed in the listening chair. I agree it does sound good. It will be interesting to hear some comparisons between the ipod roon endpoint and the 2go/2u from those that buy them.

Edit - it seems I can’t set my iphone autolock to ‘Never’ because it is a work phone and they have disabled that option for security reasons.

The 5 minute lock thing on the iPhone isn't an issue for me as I would use the Roon app on my iPad to play to my iPhone (or iPod if I go that way after trying it out). The iPod/roon endpoint strategy definitely looks a good option for those who a) want a simple solution, b) don't need SD storage, c) don't need a portable solution, d) prefer to use 5Ghz wifi, e) like saving £1200, f) don't want a noisy, expensive NAS/computer/server connected to their hifi. Roon's architecture is designed to have a beefy core in one place and lightweight endpoints connected to your hifi, and this fits with that philosophy. You can try it for the cost of the adaptor cable if you already have an iThing. If you want (for some strange reason) to do sample rate conversion like the 2Yu, you can do that in Roon. What's not to like? Will try and get a cable next week and play.
 
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Feb 15, 2020 at 9:52 AM Post #126 of 6,287
I think the 5 minute lock thing on the iphone would be an issue. From my experience even if you controlled the iphone from your ipad once the screen goes dark on the phone (after 5 minutes) you will find that at the end of an album or if you pause play you would loose roon connection. This is because although the phone will play roon after it's screen goes dark it won't stay connected to roon after pausing a track or when an album finishes coming from a dark screen. With the ipod touch i set the auto lock to never to work around that. I also have the ipod touch continuously connected to a 20,000mAh powerbank battery so i can play and forget. The powerbank takes 3/4 hours to just loose 3 to 5% charge. I have endless hours of play and forget. The ipod screen brightness is at complete minimum and i also use roon dark mode which helps. I don't need to touch the ipod once set up. It's quite difficult due to the small ipod screen but you need to set private zone to "no" in roon on the ipod itself to remotely control it and also private zone set to "no" on the core and/or where it's applicable on your set up. My full breakdown above covers everything.
 
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Feb 15, 2020 at 10:30 AM Post #127 of 6,287
I think the 5 minute lock thing on the iphone would be an issue.
Just tried, you are right. My iphone was quite happy playing an album initiated from my iPad, but then vanished from the available endpoints when the album finished. Nonetheless, it’s enough for me to listen to an album and try the overall strategy for very little outlay. I guess other similar, moderately priced, options would be a Squeezebox Touch or Raspberry Pi both of which can be battery powered too. Bit more fiddly though,
 
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Feb 15, 2020 at 10:48 AM Post #128 of 6,287
So in your set up do you have a powerful core hidden away somewhere with an ipad as remote controlling the iphone (output) which shows up as an audio zone on your ipad?

I actually do all my listening at my main desk where hms/tt2 are placed. The quad i5, 8gb ram, 512gb ssd, nvidia graphics, 27 inch imac core is at arms length. I have a 1m certified usb class 2 cable connecting the ipod touch which is to my left to the hms on my right approx.1 metre apart. I had the usb cable shipped in from Germany.
 
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Feb 15, 2020 at 10:58 AM Post #129 of 6,287
So in your set up do you have a powerful core hidden away somewhere with an ipad as remote controlling the iphone (output) which shows up as an audio zone on your ipad?

I actually do all my listening at my main desk where hms/tt2 are placed. The quad i5, 8gb ram, 512gb ssd, nvidia graphics, 27 inch imac core is at arms length. I have a 1m certified usb class 2 cable connecting the ipod touch which is to my left to the hms.
I‘ve got a deliberately low powered Acer laptop - almost a netbook - running Windows 10 with an SSD. Its connected by USB to my M Scaler. I don’t use it for anything else, and I don’t use any DSP. When I look at CPU usage it is negligible - Task Manager takes more CPU than Roon. I control it from my IPad, or my iPhone. If I am feeling audiophile neurotic I can run my Acer and my M Scaler from battery. I also happen to have a Squeezebox Touch which gives me other options - optical being the obvious one. Works great. I could wax lyrical about space between the notes and greyer greys and all the other tosh but to be honest I am usually totally absorbed in my music. Best thing you can do for your hi-fi is actually listen to music. I treat mine like going to a concert. Sit down, listen, that’s it.
 
Feb 15, 2020 at 11:25 AM Post #131 of 6,287
The problem is you can interact with a phone's screen but the ipod touch 7th generation screen is so small for roon it becomes almost impossible to manually input to it by touching the screen with your finger. The ipod is an iphone with the cellular stripped out and once all the apps are deleted that you will never use the SQ is sublime even compared to a mobile phone. The ipod touch has to be controlled remotely within roon. So if Qobuz is within roon no problem but outside of roon i think it's impossible. I haven't compared to windows output but the ipod with cck3 apple adaptor bypasses the internal dac and passes through your digital file to the usb dac/hms untouched so uapp is not needed. iOS are limited to 44/48khz only if using the ios device's internal speakers or headphone out i.e. when the ios device does the digital to analogue conversion. I'm listening to Andrea Bocelli Amore remastered right now and it's the real deal. It's a shame i didn't have a valentine to dedicate these songs to so i dedicate them to my mscaler instead.:hearts:
 
Feb 15, 2020 at 11:32 AM Post #132 of 6,287
I'm feeling maybe we should conclude our ipod business for today at least and hand the show back over to the 2go2yu crowd. I'm actually trying to evaluate my set up vs chord's to see if there is any other way i could benefit more.
 
Feb 15, 2020 at 12:58 PM Post #135 of 6,287
Could someone with better technical knowledge and understanding than me elucidate a bit on this sentence which I found at Chord's offical site on 2Go and 2yu.

"2yu alone can also be used with PCs and Macs via USB to create a high-quality USB-to-digital-audio convertor for audio."

There was also under tech specs 2m calculations per sec mentioned.
Is this the next 2M taps thing or "Watt's up"?


And will it then work directly as a dac with the Mscaler?
Could I skip the Qutest and play directly via these two instead?
I am asking this question because the sentence clearly says "alone"!

Moreover at the H2 tread I saw Peter Hyatt mentioning the 2Go as compatible with Audirvana.?

If my version of Audirvana could be loaded onto one of those cheapish ipods MK has started to use recently instead of his imac via optical

I could see a possible use for these two toys for me too.

But for me it would be an option, ONLY provided it would,not only allow me to load my downloads as tiny NOT storage space large as full files ,but small proxie files into the ipod and NAVIGATE things from there. And with the actual full size 16/44.1, 24/96,/24/192, DXD and some large DSD files loaded on the two sd cards in 2GO and played from there with A BIG and VERY clear increase in SQ over my current way of playing downloads. Which is storing the sometimes huge original hi res files as big as 4-5 gigabyte or more with some complete opera recordings in hi res on portable hardrives and playing in Audirvana via my mbp from ram.
Ramplay sounds clearly better via usb than playing files stored on the internal hardrive of my mbp.

And most important, playback via Audirvana and ramplay sounds CLEARLY BETTER than playing music directly via iTunes.
Easily audible even via low res.


I basically only use iTunes for storing tiny proxy files and for easy navigation.
.
On the other hand, if the full files would have to be "onboard" the ipod thingy I am still NOT interested in these toys even if SQ would be increased a bit over my current mode.
32 gigabytes of internal storage is tiny and would be much too limited for my needs.
Cheers CC
 
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