Chinese / Asian Brand Info Thread (On or Over Ear Headphones)
Jul 29, 2020 at 2:45 AM Post #6,166 of 7,153
I've got no experience with the HF-580 but the HD650 does definitely has less subbass impact compared to the X2s (although they also have mostly midbass) and it doesn't offer a wide soundstage either. I think the op need to tell us more about what he's looking for to get better help.
Oh yeah I'm definitely not likening the HF-580's sub-bass response to the HD650, they are very different there, where the HF-580 also has slightly elevated bass response and better extension, while being slightly less mid forward.

It's not a super technically proficient planar driver either apparently, so the HD650 probably sits slightly ahead in that respect.

EDIT: Crinacle has some graphs that kind of highlight this difference

graph.png

You can see here two headphones that use the same driver as the HF-580, along with the Harman target and the HD650 all against a base line of a flat response.

The HF-580 is something of a budget frankenstein of three of these: it's simiar to the Blon's bass response but closes in on the Harman target due to it being lifted, and the similarities flow into the lower mids; the patchiness in the rest of the mid-range more resembles the Aiva, and then the treble tends to resemble the Blon again.

Here's some other measurements showing similar attributes, but with the stock cloth pads on the HF-580 (when its bass is at its weakest):

4dTyTbZ.jpg
 
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Jul 29, 2020 at 4:01 AM Post #6,167 of 7,153
Oh yeah I'm definitely not likening the HF-580's sub-bass response to the HD650, they are very different there, where the HF-580 also has slightly elevated bass response and better extension, while being slightly less mid forward.

It's not a super technically proficient planar driver either apparently, so the HD650 probably sits slightly ahead in that respect.

EDIT: Crinacle has some graphs that kind of highlight this difference

graph.png
You can see here two headphones that use the same driver as the HF-580, along with the Harman target and the HD650 all against a base line of a flat response.

The HF-580 is something of a budget frankenstein of three of these: it's simiar to the Blon's bass response but closes in on the Harman target due to it being lifted, and the similarities flow into the lower mids; the patchiness in the rest of the mid-range more resembles the Aiva, and then the treble tends to resemble the Blon again.

Here's some other measurements showing similar attributes, but with the stock cloth pads on the HF-580 (when its bass is at its weakest):

4dTyTbZ.jpg

I don't seem to be able to access your profile, which full size headphones do you have?
 
Jul 29, 2020 at 7:14 AM Post #6,168 of 7,153
I don't seem to be able to access your profile, which full size headphones do you have?
Currently? Takstar Pro 82, OKCSC ZX-1, HyperX Cloud Revolvers, AKG N700NC M2.

I've been researching the HF-580 on and off for a while, and so I'm more aggregating the thoughts of others (including Crinacle). Should have made that clearer in my post!
 
Jul 29, 2020 at 11:58 AM Post #6,169 of 7,153
The transportation company lost my ISK MDH9000. Now i'm looking for a open back with good amount of bass, i have an HD668 and had a HD559.
Fidelio x2 is the best option? What other options do i have?

That sucks! Yes, X2 is an option, though more expensive & open-back. I happen to prefer open-back designs, but you may feel differently.
 
Jul 30, 2020 at 2:08 PM Post #6,170 of 7,153
Where i live i can't find most of these options, and if i want to import any of those i need to pay some taxes: $100 headphone + $30 shipping for me is like $208. From Aliexpress i don't need to pay that big shipping. I already saw the HD58X and FidelioX2 for around $180 used and $270 new. The fostex i never saw here, the 6XX is out of my budget and the hifiman i already tried and didn't like.
Prices in Brazil are crazy.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 12:46 AM Post #6,171 of 7,153
Where i live i can't find most of these options, and if i want to import any of those i need to pay some taxes: $100 headphone + $30 shipping for me is like $208. From Aliexpress i don't need to pay that big shipping. I already saw the HD58X and FidelioX2 for around $180 used and $270 new. The fostex i never saw here, the 6XX is out of my budget and the hifiman i already tried and didn't like.
Prices in Brazil are crazy.
Just had a look around to see what the figures are like and... wow. That's a horrible protectionist system that forces you to buy domestic products.

I would chat to the TakstarAudio and Takstar Official stores, and see if they are able to open up shipping to your country, as the OKCSC store on AliE seems to have no such issues. The OKCSC has a warmer v-shaped sound compared to the Takstar Pro 82, with a wider soundstage that's further 'enhanced' by a dip in the mids that at its worst can leave vocals very distant, but when the genres don't especially suit it, sounds incredibly fatiguing and horrible to issues in the upper mids and lower treble. Have a look at @baskingshark's review, which covers a lot of my own thoughts, and beware of QC if you order. I've also seen pads like these suggested as an option to help with some of these issues.

If you can manage to scrape the money together, the HF-580 might be a good relaxed experience for you with the Aiva pads, but again you need to get those stores to ship to you (and I don't understand why they won't). If you can't, I would try and get my hands on a Pro 82 as a daily driver, but that comes at the expense of strong sub-bass response and it's a neutral-to-bright signature.
 
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Jul 31, 2020 at 2:02 AM Post #6,172 of 7,153
Just had a look around to see what the figures are like and... wow. That's a horrible protectionist system that forces you to buy domestic products.

I would chat to the TakstarAudio and Takstar Official stores, and see if they are able to open up shipping to your country, as the OKCSC store on AliE seems to have no such issues. The OKCSC has a warmer v-shaped sound compared to the Takstar Pro 82, with a wider soundstage that's further 'enhanced' by a dip in the mids that at its worst can leave vocals very distant, but when the genres don't especially suit it, sounds incredibly fatiguing and horrible to issues in the upper mids and lower treble. Have a look at @baskingshark's review, which covers a lot of my own thoughts, and beware of QC if you order. I've also seen pads like these suggested as an option to help with some of these issues.

If you can manage to scrape the money together, the HF-580 might be a good relaxed experience for you with the Aiva pads, but again you need to get those stores to ship to you (and I don't understand why they won't). If you can't, I would try and get my hands on a Pro 82 as a daily driver, but that comes at the expense of strong sub-bass response and it's a neutral-to-bright signature.

I wouldn't recommend the Pro82 to anyone who like bass (or even only dynamics) in their music. One of my least favorite headphones ever as they just sound totally dead and boring to me but then again nothing is for everyone.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 2:27 AM Post #6,173 of 7,153
I wouldn't recommend the Pro82 to anyone who like bass (or even only dynamics) in their music. One of my least favorite headphones ever as they just sound totally dead and boring to me but then again nothing is for everyone.
Seal is obviously very important with the Pro 82's frequency response, but I've never found the mids to be particularly recessed despite everyone claiming that of them. I'm using the updated version though which have a different driver and slightly different pads, so I can't speak to how bright the original one presented as.

This review highlights some of the differences, as well as the clear impact the thin (but comfortable) pads have on this: https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/takstar-pro-82/

seal.png


As well as the FR differences in the revision (the black line is the update):
silv-vs-black-1.png


And here you can see the driver difference:
comparo-drivers.jpg
 
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Jul 31, 2020 at 1:20 PM Post #6,174 of 7,153
I wouldn't recommend the Pro82 to anyone who like bass (or even only dynamics) in their music. One of my least favorite headphones ever as they just sound totally dead and boring to me but then again nothing is for everyone.

There is a surprisingly large market out there for "dead and boring" ...
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 3:23 PM Post #6,175 of 7,153
There is a surprisingly large market out there for "dead and boring" ...

Really, I thought everybody wanted that v-shape and that's why 95% of the budget segment offer it :wink: JK of course.

I usually find some highlights in almost any audio gear but the Pro82 is a rare case where I'm not able to do so. I know they've got their followers so as usual nothing is for everyone.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 3:38 PM Post #6,176 of 7,153
Really, I thought everybody wanted that v-shape and that's why 95% of the budget segment offer it :wink: JK of course.

I usually find some highlights in almost any audio gear but the Pro82 is a rare case where I'm not able to do so. I know they've got their followers so as usual nothing is for everyone.

I don't find the Pro 82 boring at all.

I don't listen to them a whole lot, preferring my open backs like my DT990 600ohm or the X2HR, but everytime I think I should sell the Pro 82's I listen to them for a while and change my mind. That said, they are also the most source-dependent cans I've had. They seem to like certain DACs and amps and not others.
 
Jul 31, 2020 at 3:47 PM Post #6,177 of 7,153
I don't find the Pro 82 boring at all.

I don't listen to them a whole lot, preferring my open backs like my DT990 600ohm or the X2HR, but everytime I think I should sell the Pro 82's I listen to them for a while and change my mind. That said, they are also the most source-dependent cans I've had. They seem to like certain DACs and amps and not others.

Fwiw I've tried them with a quite large variety of sources and unfortunately none of them makes them enjoyable for me. I've got no problem with others enjoying them, I'm just saying they're not for everyone but as already mentioned nothing is. I've also noticed that they're quite polarizing as people tend to either love them or have the same experience as I do.
 
Aug 1, 2020 at 12:02 AM Post #6,178 of 7,153
There is a surprisingly large market out there for "dead and boring" ...
No one's buying the Pro 82 for the bass quantity, but it's not awfully done bass. It's the overall presentation of a slightly bright signature that's really good, and in the price range. That there's two or three sets of driver implementations out there (original, fake/discard, update), and that pad seal is an issue for some with the stock pads (which are difficult to remove) is what makes it a little confusing to gauge for someone reading about it.

That being said, there is a bassy, gaming-themed (read: uglier) version: the GM200, which thickens the mids as well but apparently avoids bloat. But again, there appears to be fakes that do not have a bass vent and may create issues with its signature. It's available at the same price as the Pro 82 v2, from the same two reputable stores. Probably should have included that on the original list. :p
 
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Aug 1, 2020 at 4:02 AM Post #6,179 of 7,153
I'm with Peter123 on Pro82. It's a fine headphone for the money but just doesn't do it for me. I had no problem with bass quantity but "dead and boring" is not far off.

I used to blame that 4khz dip for that but it IS propably something else because I enjoy headphones with much weirder frequency responses. That 4khz dip does explain why some (like me) find pro82's bit dark and other consider them bright because of 10khz treble peak. It's just a matter of which bothers you more.

Why I find pro82's "dead and boring" is likely because of the undynamic nature of the headphone. It has nothing to do with frequency response. Mr.speakers headphones are often said to lack dynamics and my experience with AFO and AFC was like that. AFC is allmost a brilliant headphone but it's just damn dull. Much like Pro82.

Many people don't mind that but for others it's a deal breaker. It is highly subjective. Huge factor is what kind of music one listens. I actually enjoyed Pro82's with Viola+Cello+harpschicord type of music but for more "epic" stuff it does nothing for me.

Why Pro82's are like that I do not know. Issue is more common with planars and it is easy to speculate it is because of limited driver excursion. But pro82 is not a planar. Maybe the driver operates much like a planar and doesn't move that much? That in combination with small driver would create very little pressure and breaking a seal around ears would cause big problems. Much like it is the case with Pro82. Pro82's also have a very low reported maximum powerhandling. That might hint that the driver is indeed fixed tight and more power won't make it move more, it will just break it.

All the above is just a speculation. Just throwing out ideas why some headphones sound more lively and dynamic than others. I think it's a fascinating and overlooked subject. So far there are no good way to measure how well headphone does dynamic variations. Most of the time problem is not even that easy to notice. With those loudest passages potential problems with dynamics are overrun by the problems with frequency response irregularities such as shrieky mids or piercing highs. Pro82 is fairly linear in it's fr so it is easier to notice that kind of issues. Same with those mr.speakers.
 
Aug 1, 2020 at 2:48 PM Post #6,180 of 7,153
Just throwing out ideas why some headphones sound more lively and dynamic than others. I think it's a fascinating and overlooked subject.

I have to agree. I've owned (and quickly disposed of) a few headphones that sounded dead & undynamic. We all have sounds that we chase; for me, dead & undynamic is a sound I run away from at top speed...

Related thought: I waste many words on the ZMF Aeolus thread trying to explain why the Aeolus is such a "fun" headphone. One big reason is the "lively and dynamic" character. I can't explain how that's done, whether it's due to design, construction, voicing, all 3. It just is, and I hear it very clearly.
 

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