[cadobhuk]

I am the total newbie in the world of hi-end sound,and about 3 months ago i bought a pair of hd600's...have read tons of reviews on the internet,and almost all of them stated that there's no better headphone except for electrostatic ones..I read about grado's ultra-detailed sound,but their low comfort and funny looks made me choose hd600..I never heard any other real good phones in my life,but i didnt like them from the beginning..the sound was very clear,detailed but not "alive"...too dry,too sterile..i bought a cardas cable upgrade and it made it much better..warmer and richer..but the n i discovered this site and read alot about the dt880 and cd3000 being better than hd600 in many ppl's opinion..and the closed design is what i like more,so no one can hear what u're listening to,tho i dont know it must be making ears get tired quickly...i would get cd3000 now,if i was sure that they are clearly better and if i could sell my hd600/cardas somehow..and for a good piece of what i spent on it (~430)...thanks for ur expirienced reccomendations

 

[AdamZuf]

what makes best headphones the best is the amp, source and the cables (but not as the first two). i would suggest to start from an amp, which i can't see you own. go to amplification section and start looking, amigo

what you are looking for is an amp that goes well with most phones (as you don't know which you'll choose later, if you still won't like your senns). powerfull is good; for example, the DT880 loves power, and they are hard to drive.
what do you say?
what's your total budget for now anyway?

oh...and welcome to head-fi! sorry about your wallet!

 

[markl]

Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet.

CD3000 vs. HD600 is a perrenial debate around here. People really disagree about these cans, but many more own HD600 than CD3000 (although there are more happy CD3K owners here than ever). My opinion FWIW is that the CD3000s are very much superior. However, if you are just getting your feet wet in the world of headphones, the HD600 is a safe sure bet, absolutely guaranteed not to annoy you. OTOH, their utter blandness will either enthrall you or bore you. When that happens, proceed immediately to the CD3000. Good luck!

P.S. There is an HD650 coming shortly, Sennheiser's latest attempt to beat the HD600.

P.P.S People here will tell you you need this or that amp or this or that replacement cable to make the HD600 really shine. They help marginally improve sound, but they won't fundamentally alter the basic character of the phones. IMO, those aftermarket cables are really only for people who already like the HD600. You may feel you have thrown good money after bad.

 

[Habib]

Your problem right now is your system is extremely unbalanced. You have one kick ass headphone but you are driving it with audigy. I would even venture a guess that you listen to mp3 mostly. Correct me if I am wrong. Basically all the flaws you are hearing are the flaw of your system. Bad source, not properly amped, your HD600 will sound like crap. I had the same experience when I just got my HD580 and hooked it up to my audigy listening to mp3s. As I went from Sony D-25S, mint meta, MG Head, NAD C541i, to even Gilmore V2, HD580 responded to every change in my system. It's the rest of your system you need to worry about not the headphone.

You might find out later on that you prefer the sound of the CD3000, but if you go and buy a pair of CD3000 now. Out of your audigy it's gonna sound like crap. I would never disgrace my CD3000 by plugging it straight into an audigy and I dont mean to sound like a snob but basically everyone around here will tell you the same thing. "crap in crap out" "amp makes a difference" "cable makes a difference (but you already know that)" Stick around and you will learn plenty more.

 

[markl]

Habib makes an excellent point. Problem with CD3K is it's a sonic microscope, it will pick up all the noise and impurities upstream more readily than HD600. CD3K shines better with better upstream gear, but then again, so will the HD600s.

 

[cadobhuk]

I dont have a dedicated headphone amp,but im using the built-in amp of Megaworks 550's .. may be its a piece of junk,i got no idea,but it sounds much better than plugging phones directly in the soundcard...the headphone amps are expansive,and i'd like to have a chance to audition one b4 i buy it...isn't it true that cd3000 does not require too much amplification?also,where would be the best place to sell hd600's and how much should i ask?

 

[cadobhuk]

never thought that au2 is considered "crap"..my mp3s are all 192 or 320 kbits and i also have few dvd-audio disks...if that all is crap,than what should i do?is au2 so much worse than HQ cd-players?

 

[Habib]

Ok I looked up the Megaworks, just to be sure I am not making things up. I suspect the reason it sounds better out of the builtin amp is baecause you are using the digital connection? So the amplification part is done by the amp and not au2. ie au2 feeding digital signal to amp, amp process and power your HD600. If that's the case then that means the builtin amp is more adequate. Again, pure speculation because I dont know if you are using analog or digital.

CD3000 doesn't need as much power (30ish imdepance vs 300ohm of HD600) to drive, but the problem is it's more sensitive. So your upstream components has to feed a clean signal. Anything that runs out of a computer will pick up more electrical noise than a stand alone player of any kind. So maybe in addition to crappy source, you are going to hear all the noise. That doesn't sound like a solution...

Again, I dont want to sound like a snob, I just dont like mp3s. If I were to use my computer as source, I would use wav files or other lossless format. But that's me. I dont have experience with dvd-a but I would imagine your bottleneck being au2. au2 is a good gaming card but if you want quality sound M-Audio revolution is passable...

CD3000 will not improve your situation much right now. But I will tell you that I like my CD3000 a lot more than my old HD580.

 

[raif]

I always feel the need to say this whenever I read a thread like this.
Never hook up detailed phones to a computer.
Ever.
I made the mistake of plugging my grados into an sb live....(it was two years ago give me a break)
It sounds like every studio had a modem connecting in the background of their recording sessions.
when I listen to mp3s with my old AT-100tis and grados every simple crash sounded like a casio synthesiser.
IMHO.
-> justin

 

[raif]

by the way my cd3000s came in the mail as I was writing that last post.
Give me another 30 hours or so and I will tell you if I think they are really "that good"

 

[pbirkett]

Theres some excellent points made here. Over time, a lot of people here have tried to get me to (completely) empty my wallet on a pair of RS-1's or CD3000's, but I have been reluctant to because of the rest of my system.

My philosiphy with headphones is the same as with speakers. You should choose a pair that is appropriate to the rest of your equipment.

I did not really want the CD3000's or RS-1's in my system, because part of me feels like I wouldnt be doing them justice, and without trying to sound like a snob, I think the equipment I am using is considerably better than what you are using, and yet I still dont feel like I'd be getting the best out of the high end cans.

If you are interested, I am using a Rotel RA-01 speaker amp and Terratec EWX24/96 soundcard. IMO, this £250 amplifier and £130 soundcard, whilst outstanding products in their price class, I suspect might not do the utmost justice to a pair of £400 or £650 RRP cans like the CD3000 or RS-1. I am actually using a fairly modest (but once again outstanding product for its price) £90 pair of cans with this setup, and I feel like I have struck a balance. The sound I am getting with these headphones is likely to be better than what 99% of anyone who has ever heard a headphone would have ever believed possible.

What am I trying to say? Its not about having the most expensive setup, its about SYNERGY - the result is greater than the sum of its parts. If you spend your money wisely, then you can have a kick arse setup (including the Audigy if you like). Remember, its not JUST the cost of the headphones you should take into account, but the cost of everything you will need to get the best out of them. Source, Amp, Cables, and believe me, it quickly adds up. The CD3000's are not merely a $400 ticket to audio nirvana, but a merely a single piece in the jigsaw that will most probably cost considerably (think double or treble) more to get the most out of them.

Say for example, your Audigy is worth $50, and the CD3000's $400 thats $450. However, $450 can buy some still very good headphones, and a far superior source for example. What will sound best? I'd put money on the well chosen good quality source and headphones over a really good pair of headphones and a source which hasnt been properly considered or thought about.

Anyway, thats enough from me, I've just babbled on a bit!! Just a thought though.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by pbirkett Say for example, your Audigy is worth $50, and the CD3000's $400 thats $450. However, $450 can buy some still very good headphones, and a far superior source for example. What will sound best? I'd put money on the well chosen good quality source and headphones over a really good pair of headphones and a source which hasnt been properly considered or thought about.

Pairing a really good pair of headphones with a source which hasn't been properly considered or thought about represents one extreme. But pairing a really good source with a really crappy pair of headphones is the other extreme. So, you'd want some happy medium in between, as far as the system is concerned.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl However, if you are just getting your feet wet in the world of headphones, the HD600 is a safe sure bet, absolutely guaranteed not to annoy you. OTOH, their utter blandness will either enthrall you or bore you.

Oh, please

. Maybe the HD-580 is different enough from the 600 to not be "utterly bland" but I tend to doubt it. My 580s are anything but bland, and just to give you some background -- I'm coming from a long history of "exciting" (punchy, dynamic, bass-y, smiley-EQ) cans.

Maybe you didn't listen long enough or carefully enough to pick up on the subtle but unmistakable magic of these cans... it's relatively subtle and requires some extended listening to a variety of musical styles to fully appreciate. Before I got my 580s I heard a pair for 5 minutes at a meet and they sounded bland and unappealing (but I bought them anyway for classical based on many opinions that the realism factor is excellent as far as instruments go). Suffice it to say that I have trouble taking them off my head at bedtime now that I own a pair. I find the sound to be diametrically opposite to "utterly bland." They aren't "headbanger" cans, that much is true... but what I'm hearing is completely exciting in a subtle way, rather than exciting in a crude, 'in your face' sort of way.

YMMV (apparently it did... shrug).

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by raif Never hook up detailed phones to a computer.

using LAME encoded mp3's with Foobar2000 (heard good thoughs about Kernel Streaming option), then send them out digitaly, may not be the finest transport in the world in terms of jitter, but it's enough to make a good base.
next, is the man's amp. it MIGHT be that it's enough to bring out a decent sound from his new set of phones. who knows?

cadobhuk,
what's your wildest budget?

(you'll reach it anyway if you stick in here, so you better make the right descisions now)

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch Oh, please . Maybe the HD-580 is different enough from the 600 to not be "utterly bland" but I tend to doubt it. My 580s are anything but bland, and just to give you some background -- I'm coming from a long history of "exciting" (punchy, super dynamic, bass-y, smiley-EQ) cans. Maybe you didn't listen long enough or carefully enough to pick up on the subtle but unmistakable magic of these cans... it's relatively subtle and requires some extended listening to a variety of musical styles. Before I got my 580s I heard them for 5 minutes at a meet and they sounded bland and unappealing

It seems to be that these are your first really good cans. I'm coming from well... lots, and I can say that the HD600 are fairly bland sounding in comparison with the CD3000, Grado, etc. Perhaps bland is the wrong word. Reserved. Yes that's probably right. Other phones manage to be more involving while at the same time able to convey subtlety to the HD600 level or better.


It's good with the cable, (and what a difference the cable makes!) but as markl says, you've got to like the HD600 to begin with to enjoy that to the full.


A meet can be deceptive, especially if you don't know the source. You've got to live with the phones, ideally with a variety of decent amplification for a while to really get to know them. I gave the HD600 quite a long time. Ultimately, they didn't inspire me that much. I agree with everything that the HD600 supporters say as their positive points, but at the same time I generally agree with everything the detractors say about them

My advice would be in all cases will be to skip the HD600 and buy the CD3000.

[size=xx-small]bangraman makes a crucial mistake in trying to get a "more in-your-face sound" out of the HD600[/size]