[Andykong]

Could you please put the output specifications on page one? I thought it was 750mw/32ohms, but I can't remember.

I'll cover the headphone amplification in more detail today, and I'll update the links in the FAQ and Resource post after that. I'll update the first post when we have the full specification ready.

 

[Quadfather]

Well, just watched an N8 video. Suggested retail is $2,999.99 USD...$3,000 for all intents and purposes...

 

[Andykong]

Headphone Amplification of Cayin N8

From Digital to Analogue

After a lot of comparison and consideration, Cayin adopted two units of AKM AK4497EQ operates in mono mode as our N8 digital platform. This is the new generation premium 32-bit DAC chipset from AKM with class leading digital decoding capability. The AK4497EQ has four output channels, when operate in normal stereo mode, this will be configured as two channels of analogue output (designated as AOUTL1 and AOUTL2) with P and N phases to support a full differential circuit. Alternatively we can use the AK4497EQ in Mono mode, the alternative phase output will no longer available but the DR and S/N will boost to 131dB (DR and S/N) at mono mode.

To make sure the premium DAC chipsets will operate in optimum condition, we have employed two extremely low-noise high-precision Femtosecond Crystal Oscillator with RMS jitter below 0.1ps@10Hz-1MHz. High precision low jitter digital transmission is the base of high quality digital playback. It is how we deliver a natural, non-digital and musical playback to subsequent audio circuit.

As in regular DAC design, the output from DAC chipset will go through a Low Pass Filter (LPF). We decided to use MUSES02 as LPF after numerous listening tests and comparison with other alternatives. We also added a Buffer stage after the LPF for the first time in our DAP, this will boost the output current and handling capability. According to our listening test, this will enhance the density and reproduce a very natural soundstage. The feedback we have collected when we demonstrated N8 prototype at various shows and exhibition has endorsed this observation.

For the 4.4mm balanced phone out, the output from the LPF+Buffer will go through a 2-stage amplification: the Line Driver + Headphone Amplifier. We decided to stick with OPA1622 in the final output stage after we have tested a lot of alternative. While we can achieve fully differential amplification with 2 pieces of OPA1622, we have decided to double that into 4 pieced of OPA1622 and configure them in parallel amplification, this will increase the output current capability and lower the output impedance. In practical, these improvements will translate into better control, ability to sustain a heavier loading, and drive most portable headphones with ease and offers lots of headroom.

For the 3.5mm single-ended phone out, the first thing we need to do is to convert the differential signal into single-ended, and then we’ll go through timbre selection circuit which involves the following three steps:

1. Alternative first stage amplification (KORG Nutube 6P1 as Vacuum tube amplification)
2. Timbre selection
3. Volume matching

We shall explain the innovativeness and engineering involved in this section later. The output from the Timber selection circuit will go through the same Line Driver + Headphone Amplifier circuit but in this case, we only used two pieces of OPA1622 in parallel in the final output stage.

Dual Output Mode

As mentioned previously, Cayin N8 comes with dual output mode: STD (Standard Mode) and HIGH2 (High Impedance High Output Mode) through our unique power management strategy. At STD mode, N8 will deliver 230mW and 480mW per channel (at 32 Ohm loading) to 3.5mm single ended and 4.4mm balanced phone out respectively. This should provide enough output to handle most, if not all, earphones satisfactory in the market already.

The HIGH2 mode is achieved by altering the operation voltage of the Line Driver and Phone Amplifier modules, this will increase the output level (in Vrms) significantly. The following table compares the two output modes at different loading:

As the figure indicated, the rated output of 4.4 phone out increased by roughly 56% at 32ohm loading, but as the loading impedance increased, the rated output will increase by 167% and 150% respectively at 150Ω and 300Ω loading, that’s why we designed this as High Impedance High output mode.

We want to clarify that the HIGH2 mode are not meant for bringing full size high impedance headphones such as Sennheiser HD800 family into portable applications. These headphones require lots of current to control the diagrams movement accurately (or the magnetic mechanism in case of planars) and the battery in portable DAPs is hardly capable of doing that satisfactory. To the best of our knowledge, there are high impedance IEMs ( oBravo Ra C Series, RHA CL1, Kennerton Algiz, ..) and earbugs (VE Zen V2, …) that certainly can take advantage of the HIGH2 mode. On the other hand, the extra power will not only allow the N8 to drive earphones with difficult load, the improve headroom will benefit a lot of earphones when playback complicated music or extremely dynamic passage.

Battery and Duration

N8 is powered by a 7000mAH custom Lithnium battery, this is the biggest battery in portable DAP according to published specification as of today. Unfortunately even with this huge battery installed, we still can’t achieve the benchmark 10 hours continuous playback with our standard multi-format duration test playlist, but we are very close to that. At standby condition (no playback, screen off, no wireless connection) the N8 can last more than 56 hours. The good news is N8 supports QC2.0 quick charge technology, so you can recover from 20% to 80% in around 2 hours.

The following table provides basic battery duration information for your reference:

For the record, our battery duration test was conducted with 32ohm loading, display off, all wireless off, mid-gain, volume at 35. Theoretically we can develop a super power saving mode to extend the battery duration by lower the operation voltage of selected Op-Amps, but this will certainly affect the sound quality of the N8 audio circuit and we have decided to maintain our “Audio is priority” principle.

Specification (Headphone related)

 

[seanwee]

Headphone Amplification of Cayin N8

From Digital to Analogue

After a lot of comparison and consideration, Cayin adopted two units of AKM AK4497EQ operates in mono mode as our N8 digital platform. This is the new generation premium 32-bit DAC chipset from AKM with class leading digital decoding capability. The AK4497EQ has four output channels, when operate in normal stereo mode, this will be configured as two channels of analogue output (designated as AOUTL1 and AOUTL2) with P and N phases to support a full differential circuit. Alternatively we can use the AK4497EQ in Mono mode, the alternative phase output will no longer available but the DR and S/N will boost to 131dB (DR and S/N) at mono mode.

To make sure the premium DAC chipsets will operate in optimum condition, we have employed two extremely low-noise high-precision Femtosecond Crystal Oscillator with RMS jitter below 0.1ps@10Hz-1MHz. High precision low jitter digital transmission is the base of high quality digital playback. It is how we deliver a natural, non-digital and musical playback to subsequent audio circuit.

As in regular DAC design, the output from DAC chipset will go through a Low Pass Filter (LPF). We decided to use MUSES02 as LPF after numerous listening tests and comparison with other alternatives. We also added a Buffer stage after the LPF for the first time in our DAP, this will boost the output current and handling capability. According to our listening test, this will enhance the density and reproduce a very natural soundstage. The feedback we have collected when we demonstrated N8 prototype at various shows and exhibition has endorsed this observation.

For the 4.4mm balanced phone out, the output from the LPF+Buffer will go through a 2-stage amplification: the Line Driver + Headphone Amplifier. We decided to stick with OPA1622 in the final output stage after we have tested a lot of alternative. While we can achieve fully differential amplification with 2 pieces of OPA1622, we have decided to double that into 4 pieced of OPA1622 and configure them in parallel amplification, this will increase the output current capability and lower the output impedance. In practical, these improvements will translate into better control, ability to sustain a heavier loading, and drive most portable headphones with ease and offers lots of headroom.

For the 3.5mm single-ended phone out, the first thing we need to do is to convert the differential signal into single-ended, and then we’ll go through timbre selection circuit which involves the following three steps:

1. Alternative first stage amplification (KORG Nutube 6P1 as Vacuum tube amplification)
2. Timbre selection
3. Volume matching

We shall explain the innovativeness and engineering involved in this section later. The output from the Timber selection circuit will go through the same Line Driver + Headphone Amplifier circuit but in this case, we only used two pieces of OPA1622 in parallel in the final output stage.



Dual Output Mode

As mentioned previously, Cayin N8 comes with dual output mode: STD (Standard Mode) and HIGH2 (High Impedance High Output Mode) through our unique power management strategy. At STD mode, N8 will deliver 230mW and 480mW per channel (at 32 Ohm loading) to 3.5mm single ended and 4.4mm balanced phone out respectively. This should provide enough output to handle most, if not all, earphones satisfactory in the market already.

The HIGH2 mode is achieved by altering the operation voltage of the Line Driver and Phone Amplifier modules, this will increase the output level (in Vrms) significantly. The following table compares the two output modes at different loading:



As the figure indicated, the rated output of 4.4 phone out increased by roughly 56% at 32ohm loading, but as the loading impedance increased, the rated output will increase by 167% and 150% respectively at 150Ω and 300Ω loading, that’s why we designed this as High Impedance High output mode.

We want to clarify that the HIGH2 mode are not meant for bringing full size high impedance headphones such as Sennheiser HD800 family into portable applications. These headphones require lots of current to control the diagrams movement accurately (or the magnetic mechanism in case of planars) and the battery in portable DAPs is hardly capable of doing that satisfactory. To the best of our knowledge, there are high impedance IEMs ( oBravo Ra C Series, RHA CL1, Kennerton Algiz, ..) and earbugs (VE Zen V2, …) that certainly can take advantage of the HIGH2 mode. On the other hand, the extra power will not only allow the N8 to drive earphones with difficult load, the improve headroom will benefit a lot of earphones when playback complicated music or extremely dynamic passage.

Battery and Duration

N8 is powered by a 7000mAH custom Lithnium battery, this is the biggest battery in portable DAP according to published specification as of today. Unfortunately even with this huge battery installed, we still can’t achieve the benchmark 10 hours continuous playback with our standard multi-format duration test playlist, but we are very close to that. At standby condition (no playback, screen off, no wireless connection) the N8 can last more than 56 hours. The good news is N8 supports QC2.0 quick charge technology, so you can recover from 20% to 80% in around 2 hours.

The following table provides basic battery duration information for your reference:



For the record, our battery duration test was conducted with 32ohm loading, display off, all wireless off, mid-gain, volume at 35. Theoretically we can develop a super power saving mode to extend the battery duration by lower the operation voltage of selected Op-Amps, but this will certainly affect the sound quality of the N8 audio circuit and we have decided to maintain our “Audio is priority” principle.

Specification (Headphone related)

Wow the N8 is truly a monster. It has a lot of power but also takes in a lot of power. At least its not prohibitively heavy even with such a large battery.

@Andykong do you have the estimated charging times for the N8 in standard charging mode?

 

[PinkyPowers]

Wow

 

[Whitigir]

Very impressive. The idea of Korg Tubes for Portable is first adopted by Cayin. Not sure how it sound, but that is a job well done. Is the battery user friendly to replacement ?

 

[seanwee]

Very impressive. The idea of Korg Tubes for Portable is first adopted by Cayin. Not sure how it sound, but that is a job well done

The most noticeable part is that the soundstage is massive. We're talking desktop grade massive. No other portable device has a soundstage this big.

Not the SP1000,

nor the Paw Gold Touch.

Comparatively speaking it's not as aggressively detailed as the SP1000 but the details are there. Just not as prominent.

Overall it has a neutral-warm signature. Lots of body but never muddy like the WM1Z.

 

[Whitigir]

What about that touch Paw in the picture ? Did u compare it too

 

[Mathieulh]

I am surprised by the 7 hours charging time on their website as well, glad to know the real-life figure are much better.

We have explained this limitation, you can check it out here.

I just received two latest photo an hour ago. Sorry for the quality of photo as it was taken at production line with mobile phone, but you should be able to see the size of the Nutube as appeared on the N8 PCB. If we want to implement a true balanced Tube DAP with dual Nutube, the DAP will be monstrous large.

Why not allow the tube DAP on balance only? It makes little sense to have the tube amp feature on the single ended instead of the (superior) balanced output. I can understand that both outputs cannot be connected to the tube DAP at the same time, but it would make more sense to prioritize the balance output over the Single Ended. People paying for a high end DAP have the money to invest in balanced compatible headphones and proper 4.4mm terminated cables.

 

[alphanumerix1]

Wowee

 

[seanwee]

What about that touch Paw in the picture ? Did u compare it too

Yes of course I did

 

[Whitigir]

Yes of course I did

Tell me more

 

[seanwee]

Why not allow the tube DAP on balance only? It makes little sense to have the tube amp feature on the single ended instead of the (superior) balanced output. I can understand that both outputs cannot be connected to the tube DAP at the same time, but it would make more sense to prioritize the balance output over the Single Ended. People paying for a high end DAP have the money to invest in balanced compatible headphones and proper 4.4mm terminated cables.

The N8 is a price no constrain Dap. Not a size no constrain Dap

 

[alphanumerix1]

Why not allow the tube DAP on balance only? It makes little sense to have the tube amp feature on the single ended instead of the (superior) balanced output. I can understand that both outputs cannot be connected to the tube DAP at the same time, but it would make more sense to prioritize the balance output over the Single Ended. People paying for a high end DAP have the money to invest in balanced compatible headphones and proper 4.4mm terminated cables.

This question has been covered already have a look a Andy's answer a few pages back.

 

[seanwee]

Tell me more

The Paw Gold Touch can be best described as a compromise between the N8 and the SP1000.

Its not as holographic as the SP1000 but it has some of it. The soundstage is not massive like the N8 but it's noticeably more spacious compared to the SP1000. Lets say the N8 is rated a 20 for soundstage and the SP1000 a 15. The Paw Gold Touch would be a 17.

In terms of tonality it would be closer to the SP1000 but with a bit more body.

Personally I found the Paw Gold Touch to be the most neutral among the three.

In terms of ergonomics the N8 would be the nicest to hold and the SP1000 being a bit cumbersome due to its width. The N8 is very thick though.