[wackoip]

Since a lot of users are concerned on the background noise issue of the Audio Motherboard, I have asked our Engineer to provide more information for reference purpose, turns out the numbers are quite different from the actual listening experience.

First of all, the Noise level (in dB) is directly related to Noise Power (in W or V), and you can calculate noise power from signal to noise ratio and power output:

To calculate SNR, divide the value of the main signal by the value of the noise, and then take the common logarithm of the result: log(S ÷ N). There’s one more step: If your signal strength figures are units of power (watts), multiply by 20; if they are units of voltage, multiply by 10. For power, SNR = 20 log(S ÷ N); for voltage, SNR = 10 log(S ÷ N). The result of this calculation is the SNR in decibels. For example, your measured noise value (N) is 1 microvolt, and your signal (S) is 200 millivolts. The SNR is 10 log(.2 ÷ .000001) or 53 dB.
cf How to Calculate Signal to Noise Ratio

I have asked our Engineer to provide the technical numbers, and this is what I received from him:



Be reminded that this is electrical noise from the Audio Motherboards, there might involve other noises such as interference in the playback chain, so it might not directly correlate to what you heard in real life, but it is interesting to know that the electrical noise of T01 is higher then A01.

As one can imagine, given the same SN ratio, higher output power will come with higher noise power. During our circuit design, we'll try to control the noise power below 6uVrms, and 4uVrms is considered satisfactory, 2uVrms is consider silent background. Theoretically, we can design our DAP or Audio Motherboard to achieve 2uVrms, but then we need to lower the output power significantly (assuming the S/N ratio remain unchanged), and that will affect the headroom and dynamic of the playback even with a lot of IEMs in the market, especially DD and hybrids IEMs.

Hi Andy this is the third time I ask about the problem on playing DSD files on T01 module. UAPP support could not find out the reason why apart from the fact that T01 is different from the others module in PCM sample rate. Can I have the courtesy of an answer please?

 

[bukumurah]

Does any user of N6ii here prefer the A01 over the other boards?

 

[Andykong]

Hi Andy this is the third time I ask about the problem on playing DSD files on T01 module. UAPP support could not find out the reason why apart from the fact that T01 is different from the others module in PCM sample rate. Can I have the courtesy of an answer please?

I have no idea, therefore no comment. UAPP probably has a better understanding on what they have changed their software during the recent update, and then figure out the implication to DSD decoding. We don't have any knowledge on their software core, decoding algorithm and changes implemented recently, so we are not in any position to comment.

I am regretted that you have phased your questions in such a way that I am avoiding your question. I am not. I was occupied by other projects and therefore didn't check out this thread for a while. I have explained previously that since my resignation from Cayin full time role a year ago, I am serving as a consultant to multiple clients and I cannot participate in forum discussion interactively as before. if you have any question regarding Cayin products, please email info@cayin.cn for general enquiry and technical support, and service@cayin.cn for warranty and service support, or you can visit Cayin website for contact information.

PS. Today is our Dragon Boat Festival, a public holiday in China, and that's why I have free time to visit the Cayin threads again.

 

[wackoip]

I have no idea, therefore no comment. UAPP probably has a better understanding on what they have changed their software during the recent update, and then figure out the implication to DSD decoding. We don't have any knowledge on their software core, decoding algorithm and changes implemented recently, so we are not in any position to comment.

I am regretted that you have phased your questions in such a way that I am avoiding your question. I am not. I was occupied by other projects and therefore didn't check out this thread for a while. I have explained previously that since my resignation from Cayin full time role a year ago, I am serving as a consultant to multiple clients and I cannot participate in forum discussion interactively as before. if you have any question regarding Cayin products, please email info@cayin.cn for general enquiry and technical support, and service@cayin.cn for warranty and service support, or you can visit Cayin website for contact information.

PS. Today is our Dragon Boat Festival, a public holiday in China, and that's why I have free time to visit the Cayin threads again.

Andy thank you for your reply anyway. Without explaining a single word (and I got like three replies from UAPP straight away) it was hard for me to appreciate the current circumstances regarding your difficulty in replying. I wasn't implying you are avoiding tho answer. It's just pure frustration with no answer at all. I will email Cayin technical as suggested.

PS I had no idea you had resigned so it's really kind of you to reply to me anyway thanks.

 

[Andykong]

To add another data point here related to the Solaris 2020 and hiss.

I use the E01 mostly and the Solaris 2020 definitely hisses. Gain setting makes no difference as I hear it. It's noticeable, but not that bad and inaudible when music is playing except in the quietest of parts.

Tried A01 again briefly. Less hiss than e01, almost completely inaudible, but still there.

You guys should stop complaining and do more listening

The hiss of A01 an T01 is totally acceptable! Wont hear it even low quiet passages!
But E02 does more hissing its a fact...

But by all means n6ii still sounds bad ass!

These are examples that practical experience are different from our calculated Noise Power figures.

Thank you for all the sharing regarding the background noise experience of various Audio Motherboards. There are quite a lot of questions and sharing on this issue and since I am biased (why not? ), you should not be surprised that I quoted these messages as reference. The truth is, all sharing are important because steering users away from problems are as important promoting our strength.

 

[Andykong]

Andy thank you for your reply anyway. Without explaining a single word (and I got like three replies from UAPP straight away) it was hard for me to appreciate the current circumstances regarding your difficulty in replying. I wasn't implying you are avoiding tho answer. It's just pure frustration with no answer at all. I will email Cayin technical as suggested.

PS I had no idea you had resigned so it's really kind of you to reply to me anyway thanks.

I sincerely hope UAPP can help you out and identify the reason behind the problem. They have first hand information on what changes have been implemented in the recent software upgrade and they are in a much better situation to explore the problem.

I thought my sponsor status has explained my current position already, I am affiliated with Cayin, Meze and YULONG at the same time.

 

[Andykong]

For those curious about my impressions of my wm1z/Romi to N6ii.
Well to make it quick you can simply go buy a used wm1z and mod it, thats it lol

N6ii is a fun engaging dap with a diversity of sound presentation which are all great and really good for feet tapping moments for many hours!

But unfortunately it stops there, it simply cant and I believe not built to go to ToTl territory...

Things like noise, app crash, very hot, interferences while charging and listening... hiss in the background.

Stability and quickness of Ui software.

All that makes it top tier but not ToTl.


Sound wise the closest I can say is, combine amp T01 and E02 together and you got something that resembles a lot 1z/romi sound.
Tough its still behind and not as organic and musical. 1z/romi is simply a heavenly beautiful palace for your soul.
Extremely clean hiss free and bliss.

I will admit when I listen to n6ii I am also enjoying it a lot if I stop thinking of my 1z. If there was no 1z I would definitely go with n6ii!


1z really deserves its place among legends of legends among the stars its that unique and emotional!

Yea the bug with hugo2 is you still need a dap LoL

N6II + E01 + hugo2 would be a nice combo all SE everywhere!
Cayins usb to coax into hugo 2...

Though 1 big problem how to charge n6ii ? While in coax mod....
Hugo2 has 2 usb ports.

If you are using USB to coax into Hugo2, then it doesn't matter whether you are using E01 or A01 or T01, the result should be the same. In fact, you can unplug the Audio Motherboard from the N6ii completely, all three digital outputs of N6ii should remain fully functional. We did discuss the possibility to create a dummy Audio Motherboard so that the N6ii will serve as a digital transport only. The idea was not flavoured by our dealers so we didn't go ahead with that.

Did you count the battery life of N6ii when using as digital transport? I am curious with that myself. My estimation is somewhere between 20-25 hours.

By the way, I am flattered by your comparison of N6ii (T01) with Wm1z+Romi (presumably BX2), we are honored that the N6ii(T01+E02) can resemble the experience of this combo, which is more expensive and significantly bigger and heavier. Cayin develops the N6ii as a fun, competitive and versatile DAP, it is not a TOTL implementation. It is quite obvious because if N6ii is our TOTL DAP, how should we position our N8?

Your observation is right on, if I have to find a point to argue with, then app crash is probably the only issue that is debatable. When a lot of the current TOTL DAPs does not allow third party app installation (such as N8 ), or not having Google Play pre-installed (so limited choice of third party app),we shouldn't be faulted because we have tried to walk an extra mile. From another perspective, other TOTL DAP(such as N8) does not have app crash problem because they can't install third party application? That is a bit odd to me.

 

[Andykong]

I wonder how well N6ii + E02 drive Abyss Diana V2?

No way. Even N8 can’t drive Diana well.

Cayin had provided DAPs to JPS booth at 2019 Munich High-End as line out source to XiAudio Broadway and Abyss Diana, I believed that was an V2. I dropped by their booth very often during the show and tried both N8 and N6ii (A01) with Diana directly. Joe Skubinski agreed with my observation that N8 and Diana are enjoyable and respectable but far from full potential of Diana. The N6ii is not far behind but slightly lacking in headroom and dynamic.

 

[Andykong]

Hi Folks here is my impressions of the 3 amps after playing around with them each for 200+ hours
We got A01 T01 and E02

All 3 offers very different taste desire and approach to the music presentation, if you get bored with one you can insta swap and feel a very distinctive change in sound and enjoy the new style.

For me its not necessary to own all the amps and you can simply pick one and sell the others but its up to you how you like collecting your audio gear...

From long listening sessions and during all the time I had all 3 of them I always came back to T01 it simply offers the most unique sound timbres and tonality. Very organic feel most of the time very airy. I do find it appeals to my taste the most and also the closest sound to my moded wm1z/Romi!


Ok here we go we start with A01,
This amp has a silk flavor of the AKM dac and yes you can feel its presence, its very smooth and the most gentle and less fatiguing among all the 3 I have. I find it has to much thickness and warmth it kinda suffocates the natural feel of the music and sounds like its taming to much the high frequencies get to much like a thick layer on top everything...
This Amp has a forgiving approach to the songs so less quality resolution tracks wont be penalized as much.
The vocals on here are slightly tamed down and have a laid back feel to them, it also dont have the clearness and resolution of T01 or E02.
This amp has a constant thick feel to the music, its lush warm across the board.
The bass is not as deep or rumbly its more linear and dont get that massive.
Treble here never get piercing, it can get high but cant never be painful.
This amp has barely audible hiss very quiet

T01
In this amp right away you get the feel of a more massive sound cleaner clearer more resolution and music feels more open and natural.
Bass is very deep and rumbly ripley at some point I wonder who is the deepest T01 or E02? I favor T01 over all others because the timbral resonance of sound waves are very organic and has a nice rare feel to it reminds me my bg caps hehe on my 1z/romi.
Definitely I feel better sens of imaging and sound stage on T01, E02 is also very close and maybe equal for that.
The treble on T01 can be fatiguing in the long run and is less forgiving for lower resolution tracks. Though it offers a nice emotional feel to the music as its slightly sharper in treble and deeper in bass. To me it drives your emotions and tickles them more offten due to that.
Overall I find T01 to be very good and close to life like musical perception. But I think E02 wins for the closest life like experience for music.
T0 has an addictive very authoritive sound, its clean clear, massive and very very nice airy feel to the music with awesome sound stage and resolution!
I like this amp the most and its my favorite.
Vocals here feels more forward then a01, but with higher treble we can get the Thshhh and ssss more prone to emerge and be felt slightly siblant. That depends on your headphones I guess to what degree it will be pronounced.

This amp has barely audible hiss very quiet


E02
This amp feels the most accurate and life like sound, more then others in this segment. Very close to T01 and a step above... It has clearer and less thick sound vs T01, which I find brings in the higher resolution and clarity.
Voices here are very admirable and pleasant cant find anything to reproach. E02 has the best vocals performance for sure. It just feels very natural and timbers are not thick or bright. This amp has the best balanced between all frequencies, very audiophile like tuning with a fun factor.
Treble on this amp is less sharp then T01 and has a better sense as they closing to that perception being more natural vs T01. Even if its less sharp it still has the great control and detail accuracy in treble. This amp is probably the most details and layered among the 3 I guess the ess sabre shows its strenght here.
I find the bass less deep then T01 maybe its the organic vibrancies of t01 that creates this effect?
Overall I find E02 a good step up in technical performance over all other amps but I still prefer T01 for its warmer and more organic feel...
E02 is very accurate detailed and precise amp, you want the best performance and nice darker feel to the music this it the one!

I have 1 serious issue about E02 its not like its a deal breaker but almost there... Its the hiss! T01 and A01 is very very quiet I never hear the hiss and it never bothering me at all! But with E02 I can get the hiss heard in low quiet passages of the music, so yea if not that it would be a big winner!

Also that squalshy strange radio frequencies type hiss, I saw a few had it also here. For me its weird sometimes I hear it sometimes I dont, its an intermittent noise. But I never hear it while I listen to music its quiet, its rare when I will hear that squalsh and only when the music is in a quiet dead passage for more then 4 seconds... Also when Iset play and bring volume to 0 to purposely hear the hiss lvl for test...


Here was a short and detailed overview of the 3 amps, I highly highly rec the T01 second would be E02 then others


Tiger Ears

Your impressions on various N6ii Audio Motherboards and their mix and match suggestions are very useful resource to the N6ii user community, may I suggest you consolidate your writings into a review and post it on HeadGear? This will make your contribution more accessible.

 

[Andykong]

Hi Tiger Ears,

Do you find it more difficult to differentiate the difference in sound due to the LID technology on the 64 Audio's Tia lineup?
I have been thinking of getting my very first DAP.. although I'm tempted by the SP2000.. I personally prefer the clean Android UI/OS on the N6ii. I might wait it out and see if Cayin will release a new DAP sometime this year

We will release a new DAP sometime this year. The successor to N3 is long overdue. If you are looking forward to a N6ii replacement, then you'll have a very long wait.

 

[Andykong]

Is it recommend to listen while charging? It gets hot enough with the E02.

I wouldn’t do that as it gets really really really hot if you listen while charging, to a point where my fingers felt burnt when touching the volume knob.

This is similar to asking whether you can use a phone while you are charging.

Mobile phone manufacturer will advise you not to, but I am sure most users will pick up the phone and use it without hesitation, and if you use your mobile phone to play game during charging, it will get very hot as well.

Likewise, we don't recommend users to use the DAP while charging. It's OK if you are doing file management or testing a few tracks only, but if you were to listen to music non-stop during charging, it will get very hot. It won't burn the circuit board of the components, but definitely not comfortable for hands-on operation, so we'll suggest you not to.

 

[Andykong]

I’ll repeat the tip for good battery life: always unplug your headphones from your N6ii when you’ve finished listening. Of course, you must balance this against wear and tear on the headphone jack.

That is because when you unplug your earphones or headphones from N6ii, the DAP will fall back to digital output status, and the Audio Motherboard will enter idle condition.

 

[Andykong]

I was asking my self the same question and seems like not... Andy where talking about a new tempered glass protector made of hydrogen? I dont know where all that gone since then...

Yes, we have replaced the tempered glass protector and all new purchase will use hydrogel screen protector instead. In fact, we have announced previously that user can contact their dealer to collect a hydrogel screen protector for their N6ii if they want to replace their tempered glass protector. Check HERE for more detail.

 

[Andykong]

Cayin recommends a minimum 50-hour burn in time with the E02.

The headphone amplification circuit of E01 and E02 are implemented with discrete components, we recommend a moderate burn in process for these two Audio Motherboard. It is safe to use them immediately, but the sound signature might varied slightly during the early stage of usage.

 

[gazzington]

The headphone amplification circuit of E01 and E02 are implemented with discrete components, we recommend a moderate burn in process for these two Audio Motherboard. It is safe to use them immediately, but the sound signature might varied slightly during the early stage of usage.

Im considering getting the e01 but already own the e02. Is there a difference in sound?