[jmills8]

Good to know.
I'm wondering which modern DAPs the other guy was referring to that gets over 20hrs.

that one is 2008 the second is newer gets 45 hrs.

 

[buonassi]

I'm wondering which modern DAPs the other guy was referring to that gets over 20hrs.

he's probably just stating his distaste for the backward trend. If we could do 40+ hours way back when, and Sony can do 30 now, why are we accepting 15 from Cayin?

That said, I think 15 goes against the grain and is EXCELLENT battery life compared to other DAPs I've owned.

 

[kdphan]

he's probably just stating his distaste for the backward trend. If we could do 40+ hours way back when, and Sony can do 30 now, why are we accepting 15 from Cayin?

That said, I think 15 goes against the grain and is EXCELLENT battery life compared to other DAPs I've owned.

android

 

[shigzeo]

My DP-S1 gets over twenty with a bit of coaxing. All smartphones do. We are devolving. It’s not just power. I believe that coding optimisation isn’t very good for many of these DAPs.

 

[CayinSupport]

How does Android (international version of N6ii) act when the battery gets very low? Orderly shutdown, or just vanishing?

Thanks in advance.

Hi,

The operating system of N6ii is a customized system based on the stock Android system, most functions are the same as a stock Android phone.

A message will pop up in the Notification Bar when there is 15% or 5% or 1% left in the device. This is a system-level notification, so it won't be covered by whatever apps you are using.

If you pull-down the Notification Menu and press on the message, you will enter the Battery Management menu, where you can see the status of the battery, usage by different applications and set to battery save mode.

When the battery is lower than 1%, the system will automatically turn off the device.

The next time when you turn on the device, you will see the apps, which you were using before the device shut down, are in the background.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask in this thread, thank you.

 

[CayinSupport]

***** Duplicated Message Deleted *****

 

[Currawong]

My DP-S1 gets over twenty with a bit of coaxing. All smartphones do. We are devolving. It’s not just power. I believe that coding optimisation isn’t very good for many of these DAPs.

It's not that, it's because these DAPs are running a high-end DAC chip and a full amplifier module with enough power for full-sized headphones. Inside a smartphone or iPod, if there is analog output at all, it's from a single, integrated chip with only minimal power output.

 

[shigzeo]

It's not that, it's because these DAPs are running a high-end DAC chip and a full amplifier module with enough power for full-sized headphones. Inside a smartphone or iPod, if there is analog output at all, it's from a single, integrated chip with only minimal power output.

That is of course the case, but I am quite sure that software implementation is also culprit. Even in smartphones better low level programming can yield massive gains in battery life.

I k ow that these machines use high end DACs and amps but they require mains in order to last a day. That is very like early MD players.

 

[shigzeo]

Anyway, I spent two or three sentences on battery life in a review that overwhelmingly praised the N6ii; why we have to hang here is beyond me.

 

[jmills8]

Anyway, I spent two or three sentences on battery life in a review that overwhelmingly praised the N6ii; why we have to hang here is beyond me.

So battery life is good and bad ?

 

[shigzeo]

So battery life is and bad ?

It isn't good.

 

[mwhals]

It isn't good.

Neither is the gas mileage for a sports car compared to a Toyota, but no one is complaining as it is physics.

 

[Mastermind]

Anyway, I spent two or three sentences on battery life in a review that overwhelmingly praised the N6ii; why we have to hang here is beyond me.

Your review is really nice, but I have to disagree with your statement regarding battery life. It's not about poor implementation, low-capacity battery or Android. In modern DAPs It's mostly a matter of power-hungry discrete DACs and amp sections, which consume most power, as well as high-quality screens and wireless streaming services. Previously, in DAPs, like above-mentioned Cowon, mostly codecs were used and low-power amps, that were not able to drive high impedance cans or provide sound quality similar to modern top-of-the-line DAPs. I owned Cowon D2 and I'm still using J3 as an audio book player, but it's no match for modern DAPs in terms of SQ, but battery life is, of course, impressive. DAC and amp sections in phones are simple circuits, which are often integrated into SOCs (like some of the former Wolfson's products) so it's not an equal comparison, even close.

As for Android, of course, it takes its part too, but if you compare non-Android DAPs, Android ones, and some that come with hybrid systems (like those from iBasso, allowing to boot linux-based Mango OS or Android) you will see that with the same hardware power consumption basically stays almost the same and influence of Android is quite negligible.

The rule of a thumb in this case - if you are looking for ultimate sound quality you pay with battery life directly and any extra hour is a matter of compromise. For example, Calyx M with class A amp runs for about 4-5 hours at its most, but provides an excellent sound quality. Cayin N6II with A01 board (AK4497 + OPA1622) - around 14hrs, but with E01 board (ESS9038pro+discrete amp circuit) you get 9hrs in AB class and 7hrs in Class A - this is the price you pay for high-end desktop DAC and circuitry.

De facto, in real life somewhat like 10 hrs is a standard for an average DAP, so 14 hrs with stock A01 board is excellent, imo.

P.S. There are rare exceptions, for example FPGA based DAPs (like those from Sony, for example), that prove to be more power-efficient, but from what I can see this technology is complex, requires expensive R&D and programming and in most cases is used for additional purposes mostly, like DSD decoding etc. by those companies that do not posses Sony's unlimited resources.

 

[shigzeo]

Your review is really nice, but I have to disagree with your statement regarding battery life. It's not about poor implementation, low-capacity battery or Android. In modern DAPs It's mostly a matter of power-hungry discreet DACs and amp sections, which consume most power, as well as high-quality screens and wireless streaming services. Previously, in DAPs, like above-mentioned Cowon, mostly codecs were used and low-power amps, that were not able to drive high impedance cans or provide sound quality similar to modern top-of-the-line DAPs. I owned Cowon D2 and I'm still using J3 as an audio book player, but it's no match for modern DAPs in terms of SQ, but battery life is, of course, impressive. DAC and amp sections in phones are simple circuits, which are often integrated into SOCs (like some of the former Wolfson's products) so it's not an equal comparison, even close.

As for Android, of course, it takes its part too, but if you compare non-Android DAPs, Android ones, and some that come with hybrid systems (like those from iBasso, allowing to boot linux-based Mango OS or Android) you will see that with the same hardware power consumption basically stays almost the same and influence of Android is quite negligible.

The rule of a thumb in this case - if you are looking for ultimate sound quality you pay with battery life directly and any extra hour is a matter of compromise. For example, Calyx M with class A amp runs for about 4-5 hours at its most, but provides an excellent sound quality. Cayin N6II with A01 board (AK4497 + OPA1622) - around 14hrs, but with E01 board (ESS9038pro+discreet amp circuit) you get 9hrs in AB class and 7hrs in Class A - this is the price you pay for high-end desktop DAC and circuitry.

De facto, in real life somewhat like 10 hrs is a standard for an average DAP, so 14 hrs with stock A01 board is excellent, imo.

P.S. There are rare exceptions, for example FPGA based DAPs (like those from Sony, for example), that prove to be more power-efficient, but from what I can see this technology is complex, requires expensive R&D and programming and in most cases is used for additional purposes mostly, like DSD decoding etc. by those companies that do not posses Sony's unlimited resources.

I think we are all on the same page as far as all of that goes. And, I am fully aware of the power sucking circuits in these devices. I don't believe that they provide better SQ because of that. Sony's are weak in comparison and many people swear that they sound great. SQ in the idiosyncratic way is totally changeable from person to person. As we know, those powerful circuits don't provide better SQ on a test bench, even under load, and while I love what I hear from the N6ii, it's not because objectively it is better. I just nails what I want in sound from a device. Of course, at normal listening levels, I am not taxing its amp at all, and most of are the same.

It would be interesting if there were a low power mode for earphones and headphones that don't need much voltage to hit relatively loud volumes. If a thing like that could be implemented, it may possibly nail battery life closer to 20 hours.

 

[shigzeo]

Neither is the gas mileage for a sports car compared to a Toyota, but no one is complaining as it is physics.

Even a sports car will use way less fuel when driven at normal driving speeds than it will when driving fast. Most of the time, the volumes at which we listen don't soak up power. There are some amps that are super powerful but receive weak signals from DACs and end up putting out relatively quiet levels from their amps.

A car that goes faster and is engineered for that doesn't give a better driving experience inherently, and a DAP that can reach much louder volumes with good current overhead doesn't necessarily sound better than one that doesn't at normal listening levels. Hell, I've listened to a few DAPs that cause my ADC to overload at -6dB and need padding at -18dBu at max volume but which are also unable to output more than 110dB of DR. Obviously the N6ii puts out more.

And when measured for listening levels, you have the problem again that everything you are listening to likely doesn't even break the 16-bit ceiling. I did my best to outline that in this video, where I measure a number of devices at louder than normal listening levels, some of which, when driven at max barely break the 16-bit ceiling and others which far surpass it. None is capable of more than 90dB in any metric when set to levels I find uncomfortable. At normal levels, they may fall below 85dB or even less.



Which is why I try to be upfront about what I like to hear and what I expect to hear rather than talk about sound quality in a somatic reactionary sense. I believe in somatic reaction, but it isn't trackable at all. What I find totally awesome may be something you don't, and it doesn't depend on the quality of the signal. I'm not a big fan of Sony's top end DAP, but many are. It has good battery life, even when fiddled a lot and a lot of fans that swear it is among the best if not the best sounding device out there. But is comparatively weak next to an N6ii. Which sort of messes up the power-as-quality aspect of any argument.

I must reiterate: the N6ii is my favourite sounding DAP in some years. But I stand by the battery thing. When using it normally, I never got more than 10 hours of life from it. And, it drains when powered completely down faster than any DAP I have used. I also dislike its physical UI and parts of its Android system. Otherwise, it is simply phenomenal.