1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.

    Dismiss Notice

Cayin N5ii Technical Support thread

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by seanwee, Mar 28, 2018.
1 2
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
  1. snbrp
    I have asked you before: how to skip 1-2 min when listen to 55 min track (disk image)? I can't do this with buttons because seeking speed is too fast and can't do this by sliding cursor on progress bar because it is too "short" for long tracks navigation.
    I was happy with seeking on N3 and hate it on N5mk2. You spend lot of resources for strange "USB Audio" and other modern, but realy not needed in DAP functions, but strongly can't make basic functionality works perfect. I don't understand you, gyus.
  2. seanwee
    It was Cayin's decision, I agree the N3's skipping is more practical.
  3. Andykong
    First of all, I want to thank @seanwee sincerely for taking the initiative to start this thread, your effort is most appreciated. I see a lot of passion and talent in your approach to the problems, Cayin is honored to have a sincere and deligent user like you.

    I just resume duty today after a short break in Singapore. As I mentioned previously in the N5ii main thread, I'll cover four international shows/exhibition from Feb 17 to May 13, so I am not as "reliable" in terms of customer support, Silvia will join me in two out of four events so she is not 100% available either. We'll try our best to handle the questions and problem as much as we could but please pardon our occasional absent in due course.

    Let me start with the Bluetooth problem first, seanwee provided a very good framework for me to explain the current situation of N5ii regarding BT connections.

    We have tested N5ii with a small collection of BT headphone in the market before we launch the DAP. This is how we test the range of BT connection:
    1. Put N5ii and Bluetooth headphone into a test lab. with N5ii being the only wireless transmitting device and the Bluetooth headphone being the only wireless receiving device.
    2. Turn on N5ii and set Bluetooth to On, place it on a non-metallic table
    3. Turn on the Bluetooth headphone and pair it with N5ii
    4. Start music playback on N5ii,
    5. Use N5ii as the center and walk around the N5ii in circle at 0.5m, 1m, 1.5m, 2m, ... radius (i.e., maintain a constant distance with no obstacle in between)
    6. Stop when music drop off/stutter/pause and record that as the maximum range of Bluetooth pairing.

    This might not be a close proximity of the real life environment but this is repeatable, comparable and can be cross-checked by third party, which is the essences of testing in engineering domain. In fact, when we receive user complaint regarding "broken" or inoperable BT function, we'll suggest users to conduct similar test with their N5ii/headphone so that we can verify their hardware is in decent condition to start with.

    Among the Bluetooth headset that we have tested, FILL and Sennheiser offers remarkable range at 5m+, and BOSE QC35 is one of the shortest ranged Bluetooth headphone with music drop out at around 2m to 2.5m only. so we believe the BT antenna gain of QC35 is on the weak side when compare to other Bluetooth headphone in the market.

    We have implemented error correction and frequency hoping in BT4.0 standard, but we must admit that the Bluetooth capability of N5ii is on the conservative side of the spectrum. This is because the N5ii has a very complicated analogue amplification circuit that is very sensitive to RF interference, and it will amplifier the interference into a nasty and disturbing background noise, affect the usability of the DAP as high fidelity music player. We have spend a lot of time to fine tune the Bluetooth implementation including limiting the antenna gain and suspend some of the features that will generate impulsive high power RF signal. Mobile phone won't need to deal with these problems because they use a highly integrated chipset or even removing the 3.5mm analogue output option completely, and with their plastic molded chassis, they can implement their Bluetooth solution at a much higher power and higher efficiency.

    I shall pass the test result of seanwee to our Service Engineer, try to replicate his finding and determine the potential solution to enhance our BT implementation, however Cayin will maintain a higher priority to general audio performance over Bluetooth performance. Audio Priority is not just a feature but rooted deep in our branding, and it is not by chance that N5ii is rated as the best sounding DAP at its price point. There are DAPs that opt for a highly integrated chipset solution (sorry, I can't quote the name of competitors, I can only comment on the technology details) with everything related to headphone amplification consolidated into a chipset. This will avoided the RF interference significantly and offer better user experience on Bluetooth connections.

    I'll deal with other subjects in separate posts, but please be patient, I'll try my best to cover all the topics promptly but there are piles of documents waiting for me and an US trip (AXPONA 2018) scheduled next week. :sweat_smile:
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
    seanwee likes this.
  4. Nestacres
    Thank you very much for this. I'm encouraged that hopefully a solution may be found!
  5. CayinSupport
    Hi It happened when you just plugged in the headphone or your headphone has already been plugged into your N5ii for a while? Have you checked if your headphone has been plugged correctly? what are the bit and sample rate of your FLAC files? With native player or third party apps?What is your N5ii current firmware?Can I have your song for a test?
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  6. seanwee
    Accidentally stumbled onto this issue and it's solution.

    I think it's caused by the N5ii not detecting the earphones as plugged in. Reinserting my earphones solved it.
  7. Andykong
    Thank you very much for the effort to dig into the freeze problem, maybe this has illustrate why we have not been able to solve the problem completely: the freeze problem has certain degree of randomization. We have collected some operation "patterns" from users but most of them are not valid when we go through a large scale testing with multiple DAPs. From what we observed, the freeze was caused by some hidden status in the system.

    In order to catch this nasty bug, we have developed a special beta firmware to keep track of the machine status, the player will operate in developer mode with this beta firmware and generate a log entry whenever the DAP is freezed during playback. We are in the process to recruit beta testers who has experienced frequent freeze or pause during their daily use, we hope the beta firmware will record detail of machine operation status and review the root cause of the bug.

    Right now the Beta firmware is only available in Domestic (no Google Play) version. Once we field tested the beta firmware, we'll extend the bug status collection to oversee users. I'll issue a call for beta tester notice here and in the main thread.

    We have devoted a lot of resource trying to trace the issue with no luck, let's hope we can identify the root cause of this bug as soon as possible.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  8. seanwee
    Maybe after I finish my own testing first :)
  9. Andykong
    This sounds like TWO headphone output to me, wander if the "line out" of Xduoo X3 will by-pass the headphone amplification circuit at all?
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  10. seanwee
    I've opened it up before and studied the PCB and components, it does bypass the OPA1612 op amp. Rockbox in simply turns it into a variable line out instead of fixed line out. The headphone out is louder though.
  11. originalsnuffy
    Thank you Cayin for your help. I know that is seems like I have been beefing about firmware release timing, but part of the overall feeling about the unit is tied to that darned random pause bug. And some efforts to tame the USB bus which has timeouts during data transfer I bet those bus and pause bug issues are tied together. The machine shows signs of timing issues with various processes including bus transfers. I know you have a plan to catch as many bugs as you can show show up during its randomization.

    Fortunately it seems like you have some kind of fix that has yet to meet QA requirements. I appreciate that you are communicating after a brief pause for trade shows. I want this product to be a runaway hit which it will be with stable firmware.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  12. CongoFather
    Have you included the issue to your backlog related with the streaming softwares like spotify , tidal when using N5ii with an external dac using usb-out? It works seamlessly when the connectin is phone-out instead of usb.. I have written about this long ago in the main thread.

  13. Andykong
    As discussed previously, we have developed a beta software to collect information of the player when it pause randomly. The firmware can't generate on all "pause" or freeze" pattern, so we are focused at the "pause and resume to operation automatically after a designated time" situation for the moment. We can expand to other condition if we can't catch the bug afterward.

    If your N5ii have experienced the random pause/freeze frequently and is willing to help out , I'd like to invite you to join our user debug program. You'll be given a beta firmware and you need to submit the log of your player through email after you have experienced a system pause or freeze during playback. We'll provide detail instruction and firmware download link when you are selected as a beta user.

    Drop me a PM with your email and a brief description to your N5ii random pause problem (frequency of pause, how long does it take to resume operation, ...). While we want to include as many beta tester as possible, but we have to set a limit on the size of beta user group in order to make this manageable, we;ll see what happen as the program kick start.

    Looking forward to some good news from this beta user group soon.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
    zato23, CongoFather and seanwee like this.
  14. alwass89

    Mt N5ii is stuck on this screen. I have tried to "wipe data/factory reset," "wipe cache partition" and load firmware 3.1EN onto a microSD card and "apply update from external storage."

    Does anyone know how to fix my N5?
    IMG_20180408_123408.jpg IMG_20180408_123408.jpg
  15. karlus
    Make sure you don’t have a stuck/sticky side button that is making it go into recovery mode every time.
1 2
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13

Share This Page