[CayinSupport]

Hi I am a newbie and have a few basic queries about the N5ii / s

2. Can it play DSD to my DAC via DOP? If so how?

Thanks in advance.

You can change the settings to Dop in DSD mode like below picture

 

[ngs428]

@CayinSupport

Will you continue working on firmware revisions for N5ii?

 

[seanwee]

@CayinSupport

Will you continue working on firmware revisions for N5ii?

Yes they will.

Last but not least, the different IO pin definition and instruction set of the screen imply that N5ii and N5iiS cannot share their firmware. Since N5ii and N5iiS are operated under the same MCU and system core, we shall make sure all firmware enhancement will be available to both N5ii and N5iiS users at the same time (well, there might be 2-3 days of delay but it won’t be significant).

 

[Andykong]

This is my immediate reaction as well. I'm sure the price increase is necessary to amortize all the sudden added work needed to bring N5iiS to market, but that large a price increase puts the player in kindof a new tier of competition.

That being said, I really appreciate all the detail in the explanation. You'd NEVER see that from most companies, they'd just replace the unit, call it an upgrade, and never acknowledge the supply issue.

I think all three players has their own merit. If you want small form factor, N5iiS will be your first choice. If you want mobile-phone user experience, definitely R6 is your cup of tea. If you wants lots of modular, lots of choice, DX150 will definitely win your heart, so everyone is getting a fare share.

Yes, I don't talk about audio performance, that is subjective but base on user feedback, there isn't a clear winner nor a clear loser among the three.

Lets look at it form another perspective: is the market big enough to house R6 + DX150 + N5iiS?

So if you are talking about Product level competition? yes, definitely. Market level competition? if the market is large enough, the competition is not necessarily directly correlate to product level competition.

 

[Andykong]

We're not measuring quality of recording based on just bitrate, are we? Moreover, are you sure you can discern down converted file from original in blind test with aligned volume?
R-2R ladder DAC is worth giving a shot and it could play very well on behalf of Cayin's innovative approach. Try to bring up this topic for discussion on a meeting.





Hmm, you have a point here about space and stuff. However, for portable solution we can choose R-2R ladder DAC that is not too power hungry. Here is an example of alternative custom board for Hifiman HM-603 based on AD1866R in balanced option.
It doesn't generate a lot of heat, 6 hours of play on default battery.

That's very aggressive, apparently your mind is set, so I wish you all the best in finding a decent R2R DAP at the price that we were talking about.

For the record, Cayin is not a R&D facility, we are in audio business. We invested heavily on engineering and R&D when we perceive there is a CONTINUOUS market, we don't do thing just to show case our capability or innovative. AD1866R is a dual 16-Bit Audio DAC and Cayin has no intention to develop a 16bit based DAP in foreseeable future.

 

[lengyeljani]

@Andykong @CayinSupport
Is there a way to get/buy a replacement tempered glass screen protector for the N5ii? Mine has a little crack (fortunately it saved the screen), and while I'm good with it for now, if I continue my bad luck, might end up needing a replacement.

 

[Andykong]

Just to chime in on the Cayin N5ii if there’s a remake:

- SQ is basically perfect for me, don’t change
- the small size form factor is basically perfect as well (balance between portability and screen usability)
- battery life is ok but can be improved
- UI is super slow and can be improved
- a carrying pouch would be appreciated
- a 18W USB charger would be appreciated
- AP mode with TIDAL or Spotify on would be nice
- more internal memory or ability to use external memory for TIDAL would be good
- price is pretty good but I would not mind
paying $100-150 more for the above

A lot of these are not technically difficult. We probably won't aim at increase the battery life in the future but to include Quick Charge technology whenever possible. A more power MCU will speed up the UI and enhanced the user experience. We can thrown in a better USB charger but the added cost probably will be enough for you to buy two chargers from local 3C market after it goes through our supply chain, the expensive logistic system (because of the Lithium battery) and the distributor/dealer network.

Trust me, if we deliver all these, we are not talking about $100-$150 extra.

 

[Andykong]

@Andykong @CayinSupport
Is there a way to get/buy a replacement tempered glass screen protector for the N5ii? Mine has a little crack (fortunately it saved the screen), and while I'm good with it for now, if I continue my bad luck, might end up needing a replacement.

You should be able to place a special order through your local dealer, but in case you run into trouble, email service@cayin.cn for repair and replacement service.

 

[Andykong]

Hey Cayin,

I understand the need for speed to replace the Cayin N5II due to the screen issues.

I think that the listed improvements are relatively subtle and don't really create enthusiasm for a big price increase plus the added weight is an issue.

I think that you should either shoot for a $399 or less price point with the unit pretty much as is; or go big and add some killer features.

For killer features, basically take on the HiBy R6 and add clean audio paths for all signals (including apps); but keep two memory card slots. Also pick up the game with the microprocessor so you can have faster system response, less timeouts, and new features like MQA etc. The R6 has problems with impedance, so make sure to design any potential issues out of the unit. Then existing customers might even trade up.

Also keep working on the software bugs to eliminate that as a source of irritation to customers and move the reviews from mainly positive to thoroughly positive.

I will note the the current unit is miles above the HiBy R3, which has balanced output but sounds colored to my ear. Amazingly, the modestly priced Shanling M0 comes closer to the Cayin N5II sound, which is surprising to me.

A lot of your requirements make sense, it's just a matter of cost and budget, and whether Cayin want to spend that much proportion of our budget on non-audio related issues. The only exception is dual TF cards.

N5ii and N5iiS will, very likely, be our last Android DAP with dual TF card slot. We want to do it, but Android sucks when come to support two TF cards. We need to add a data bus behind the two TF card slots and Android will only see them as one card.

Be reminded that Android is primarily a system dominated by the mobile industry right now. Mobile phone never needs dual TF card or a data bus to coordinate multiple data storage, so Android is inherently weak i these areas. Since the mobile phone industry are getting rid of TF card slot in their new products, so we the chance that Android will improve their support on dual TF card or data bus is extremely unlikely.

It is also problematic to transfer files from one sd card slot to the other.

I think the unit has a limited USB bus and limited CPU and the system can be overloaded. I would love to have Cayin address this also, and I have mentioned it before.

Yes, the BUS is the bottleneck, especially when you transfer file from one card to the other , you need to wait for the time sharing on the bus.

As I mentioned previously, Android didn't like to have a BUS in the device, it simply didn't support this feature properly.

 

[Andykong]

Yeah, @Andykong, they deserve props for being first to market. That price tag though O_o

Allow me to rephrase: If Cayin can release an R2R DAP and not have it cost $2500, that would be worth celebrating as an N6... Jussayin.

My personal experience is that resistor ladder DACs handle redbook CD audio [16-44.1] better than delta-sigma can. To my ears, it just sounds better. So if a DAP could only handle up to [24-96] I’d be okay with it as long as that overall quality was more listenable than a d-s DAC running at any bit/sample rate.

I never said the challenge was easy! Haha. Call me a dreamer but I just want to be able to carry that sound with me wherever I go. Cayin seems to have enough savvy to innovate alongside trends, as evidenced by their announced flagship DAP being powered by frickin' tubes. They also don't have a DAP line (N6?) inbetween the $500 - $2500 range.... jussayin!

Heck, I'd be all for a d-s solution that could fool me. Something to compete with the HiBy?

R2R 24/96 in portable application?

No we don't. Cayin can be very innovative and we are willing to invest on the engineering when there is a market and it is within our capability. The bottom line is, we don't make chips, we use chips from the market. We are not a semiconductor company, so this is not going to happen. Unless big guys like AD or TI suddenly perceived there is potential market in R2R DAC and come out with a 24bit R2R DAC chipset, we'll just sit and wait like everybody else.

 

[Andykong]

Anyone will head to CanJam London tomorrow?

Be reminded that our UK dealer AdvancedMP3 will host a table at Westminster 41 on our behalf, please look for Cayin's booth and check out the latest N5iiS. This is first time ever N5iiS showcase outside China, don't miss this opportunity to compare N5ii and N5iiS side by side in CanJam London.

By the way, N8 will also be displayed at the same time, this is a show stopper, you'll be regret if you were at CanJam London but missed the Cayin table in this round.

 

[Andykong]

I think they make a good move as people want the new features. For myself i dont need streaming, bluetooth etc. . Just a dedicated DAP with GREAT (analogue) musical sound and good battery life. Okay, i also like if album art is shown, but i even dont need a playlist as i listen to albums... .

I hope you like N5ii/N5iiS and their audio performance has meet your expectation.

Purist DAP is hard to come by nowadays, if you insist spend every penny on the audio performance of DAP, maybe you should keep an eye on the QA361,

 

[msiekkb]

I hope you like N5ii/N5iiS and their audio performance has meet your expectation.

Purist DAP is hard to come by nowadays, if you insist spend every penny on the audio performance of DAP, maybe you should keep an eye on the QA361,

I look this same like @maira DAP with good flat, organic sound with very good details and no big and heavy. Cayin N5II will be amazing for me if he have more resolutions and details, and no moody bass. I like N5II for clarity, little brighter and crispy treble, and weight of instrument.

@maira Shozy Alien+ will be good for you, but he have very short battery life.

 

[Max Choiral]

That's very aggressive, apparently your mind is set, so I wish you all the best in finding a decent R2R DAP at the price that we were talking about.

For the record, Cayin is not a R&D facility, we are in audio business. We invested heavily on engineering and R&D when we perceive there is a CONTINUOUS market, we don't do thing just to show case our capability or innovative. AD1866R is a dual 16-Bit Audio DAC and Cayin has no intention to develop a 16bit based DAP in foreseeable future.

I have never intended to offend anybody. Where exactly in my statement did you find aggression? Those were simple questions, no more nor less. Wasn't expecting honest answers on it though
Board with AD1866R was shown as an example. As far as I remember Analog Devices has some d/a which support 24bit (do we really need it?). Apparently, Schiit is using some in desktop gear.

 

[PopZeus]

R2R 24/96 in portable application?

No we don't. Cayin can be very innovative and we are willing to invest on the engineering when there is a market and it is within our capability. The bottom line is, we don't make chips, we use chips from the market. We are not a semiconductor company, so this is not going to happen. Unless big guys like AD or TI suddenly perceived there is potential market in R2R DAC and come out with a 24bit R2R DAC chipset, we'll just sit and wait like everybody else.

Thanks for the honest reply. I know that I was being unrealistic in my thinking. But it's fun to imagine the future of this hobby anyways.