Xstream
Head-Fier
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2010
- Posts
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- 30
I'm not natively English, so excuse my English. Just wanted to share my experience and direct comparison between the two.
So, why this post?
Owning a Fiio X3 (1st gen) and having owned loads of DAPs before, from 1st gen iPod to a iPod Nano, various Sandisk's (with rockbox mostly), various Cowon's (J3, iAudio 9) and a few i can't even remember.
The Fiio was my clear favorite in the end. The sound wasn't the most neutral or best in resolution, but somehow it just gave a entertaining sound no matter the genre. It had punch when needed and was laid back with atmospheric tracks.
No need really to upgrade in that respect, but partly because it's part of us i guess (upgrade virus, experience something different), but mainly because i was interested in more options and connectivity with the new players on the market that run Android. Having the option to use Spotify, music from the cloud or the ability to use any 3rd party player / software to play around with.
To be clear, i've only tested this with my undisputed IEM headphones, the Phonak Audeo PFE-232 with custom molds. I've owned many before, the most famous being the Shure SE535's, but none of them gave me the experience the PFE's do. For those who don't know these headphones. I would describe them as laid back. Where the Shure's are more mid centered and much more upfront and live-like, the PFE's are more balanced and controlled, with much better lows and excellent highs with zero his. It's always in control, where the Shure's just became messy in some situations with a metallic sounding high and too much his for me. The treble of the PFE is just right. It's warm, but has great resolution, so i would consider this between neutral and warm. Choosing your DAP is depending on your headphones of course. After years of exploring i found the one that suit me most, so they are my "fixed variable" in this pairing.
Before i start i want to make clear both are definitely better sounding DAP's then my X3.
Cayin i5 Sound
After reading some reviews i decided to go with the Cayin i5. Not easy to get here, but i found a shop.
Received it last week and first impression was good. Build is sturdy, really LOVE the volume control, and interface is nice and had no problems so far.
But the sound. Hm, it underwhelmed me at first, later i found out that it also depends a lot on the type of music you play. The first thing to notice is that the i5 definitely is on the warm side. Not just warm, i would also call it veiled. Where the sound of the X3 is more upfront and direct, the i5 sound has a more distant placement. Once music swells up it comes more close, but not to a point where i feel very satisfied. What i also noticed was that the sound-stage is much wider then the X3. So in terms of presentation of the instruments it feels more separated in a horizontal spectrum.
When i was in bed, listening to the soundtrack of Memoirs of a Geisha, it got to me, finally. I never experienced this album so intimate before. There was a blackness in the background and a nuance in the sound presentation that was really exciting. There was layers in depth and separation in width. The only thing was that it was still in the distance, it still felt i wasn't part of it and felt more as a distant memory then a actual event. But in this case it added to the suspense and also helped falling asleep
Also the Cornfield Chase of Hans Zimmer's Interstellar soundtrack, even though not as punchy or dynamic as the X3, has a very nice flow and a pleasant warmth and suspense. The only downside is the bass that feels a bit muddy and not tight.
Listening to Rudimental - Feel the love it's quite clear it lacks the same punch and dynamics to really get this going. The same with Knive Party - Resistance. It felt too laid back and the bass quite lazy. Listening to Glen Hansard - "This Low" and "Falling slowly" the voice wasn't upfront enough and the guitar lacked some finesse.
So to me this player is really suitable for classical music, where highs can also be quite harsh and the i5 masks those harsh sounds beautifully. Mostly the mids and lows aren't exactly how i like it.It's a bit like all the band members / orchestra are in a circle. The singer in the middle being the furthest away. Adding to the surround / sound-stage effect, but lacking in intimacy of the mids with singer songwriter stuff and lacking the tight bass in music with beats and bass.
I want to add that by setting the gain setting to high does add more dynamic to the sound. But not enough to call it a sound changing experience.
Also we have to keep into account that it probably doesn't match very well with my IEM's too. I'm quite sure that the Shure's would match much better with this DAP. I'd really advice to have a very open, mid centered IEM to go with this DAP.
Fiio X7 Sound
So, a day after receiving and listening to the i5, i decided to order the Fiio X7. Being happy with the X3 it was a logical choice to give this DAP a chance, even though it's priced 200 EU higher. I chose to combine it with a AM2 amplifier having read the reviews, this seemed to be the best choice.
I'm now listening to the X7 most of the day and of course i've compared it with the same music as i did with the i5.
First up was the soundtrack of Memoirs as a Geisha, since that one surprised me most on the i5. What became clear right away is the more open and cleaner sound of the X7 with much more resolution. It really is presented less veiled, more upfront and detailed, you're more part of it. What also became clear is that the X7 has a smaller soundstage. So presentation is more in depth than width, but i didn't feel i lost resolution and detail because of that. And even though the treble of the X7 is much better, the suspense that i experienced on the i5 wasn't the same on the X7. The sound was definitely better in general, but the warmth of the i5 really goes well with classical instruments like violins and cellos. Also feeling of a black background is stronger with the i5, helping that suspenseful presentation.
Listening to Hans Zimmer's Interstellar it was clear that the X7 could just handle things better. There is a sense of control that's missing in the more busy parts on the i5. Partly because of the muddier bass. On the X7 it's just more controlled with a tighter bass, better treble and resolution. The Cornfield chase as an example. Where the i5 shined as a warm blanket it got interrupted by the somewhat weirdly placed and muddy bass after a minute, the X7 is more upfront, with greater detail, but without that laid back smoothness the i5 delivers, but the bass after a minute was much better then the i5 and added to the dynamics of the track. When you continue to the climaxes of "Day one" or "Mountains" there is just much more control and impact with the X7. Especially the bass is just much better and adds that warmth to the music naturally, where the i5 starts to lose focus with warmth and bass.
Going to Rudimental - Feel the love and Knive party - Resistance, it's not even a contest. The X7 just delivers that punch and drive the song demands and never loses control.
Also with Glen Hansard - "This Low" and "Falling slowly" the experience is more vibrant. The guitar and piano have more spark and detail, the voices are more upfront and in balance. With only the sound-stage being smaller.
I've tried all sorts of source files. MP3, FLAC, WAV in both Hi-Fi and HD qualities. There are differences for sure, but players seems to improve equally.
The only thing i noticed is that the X7, just like the X3, is a bit more forgiving with MP3 quality. Probably because of the warm nature of the i5. MP3's always seems to get a more warm sounding effect compared to lossless. So that doesn't help with the already warm i5.
Using it
Then, aside from the sound, i'd like to add a few more things of the devices in general.
The i5 wins hands down in UI. The skinned Hiby environment is really nice. It's stable and clear to navigate. Downside being that it's a bit more closed off from the general Android experience and i think the EQ without clear steps on a touchscreen is just plain annoying. I could install Spotify etc without issue. But it made me re-login every time i open it, which is quite an annoyance. Also the sound somehow changed, using the Spotify build-in renderer i'm sure. But closing it, going back to the native player, kept the (lesser - more background noise) sound rendering / settings of Spotify. Also overwriting any EQ setting. I had to explicitly kill all background tasks to reset it back to the native player's settings.
The volume wheel of the i5 isn't just a nice "audio like" design feature, but actually is great to use. It has enough resistance to not make it go by accident in your pocket and also makes it feel sturdy.
The responsiveness of the i5's touchscreen and performance is sub-par. It's not that great, but good enough.
The Fiio has a more open Android experience. But after the required OTA update and installing spotify i somehow started getting play store crashes. And not now and then, no, continuously, so much it was pretty much unusable. I had to boot into the bootloader and clear cache and go back to factory settings. It's ok now, for now. Hope it's going to stay so, otherwise it's going back.
In terms of responsiveness and touchscreen i feel it works much better then the i5. The buttons and volume control aren't as convenient as the i5.
Fiio also offers content from their own marketplace. Could have been a nice feature, especially because it contains Rockbox!, but it's all in Chinese, also Rockbox once you install it. So useles for most western people.
Design
Hard to compare. They take a different approach. The i5 is more classical looking, timeless, but also a bit boring maybe. I'm not a big fan of the pinkish metal color. In terms of a design feature with function you can't deny the volume control. It's just excellent. The white indicator light however, different story. Once that thing starts blinking (when it's charging) it's really annoying.
The Fiio takes a more modern approach. The edges are smoothened giving that fancy shine on the edges that has become so popular with for instance the iPad's and slick smartphones. I like that. I'm not so sure about the blue led shining all the time, it's not as invasive as the white i5 light. Haven't checked if it can be turned off. It's adding to a more spacy theme which i don't mind. The X7 somehow has a better feel in the hand. Even though it's bigger (longer) and a tad heavier. Width is pretty much the same.
To summarize
I guess the general trend of this review has been going in favor of the Fiio. But i need to address some nuances. The i5 is definitely a very competitive package. There are a few things to consider.
First off all, if you like "B&W" like sound, where music isn't about being clinical but a warm blanket to comfort yourself with, really consider the i5.
Secondly, if you have a very open, live-like, mid-centered headphone, consider the i5 as well. That could really be a match made in heaven.
Thirdly, the price is +- 200 (30 - 40%) less then the X7, which is ofcourse quite a lot of money. Especially if you match this point with any of the first two together with budget being an issue, pick the i5.
Actually i quite like the i5's warmer and relaxed sound. It's not what i disliked really. What i disliked most was the placement of the sound. It was positioned quite far away, more veiled. With mid centered music it just didn't work for me, the balance was off. The lows are a tad lazy and more boomy, but i could have lived with that if the positioning and mids would be a bit more upfront, just a bit more engaging. The i5 has a wider sound-stage though, which really works well with classical music, especially with it's warm timbre. With other genres i however felt the sound-stage was unnaturally wide.
Considering my fixed variable is my favorite IEM, which is on the warm / laid back side of the spectrum, for me the X7 really excels more. I gets more out of my IEM. Lows, mids, highs and treble are all in better balance. The music is more crisp, detailed and has a more natural timbre to the instruments. It's more dynamic and involving. To be picky, the sound-stage could be a tad wider
I'm sure i will update this post a few times later with new findings or changed opinions
So, why this post?
Owning a Fiio X3 (1st gen) and having owned loads of DAPs before, from 1st gen iPod to a iPod Nano, various Sandisk's (with rockbox mostly), various Cowon's (J3, iAudio 9) and a few i can't even remember.
The Fiio was my clear favorite in the end. The sound wasn't the most neutral or best in resolution, but somehow it just gave a entertaining sound no matter the genre. It had punch when needed and was laid back with atmospheric tracks.
No need really to upgrade in that respect, but partly because it's part of us i guess (upgrade virus, experience something different), but mainly because i was interested in more options and connectivity with the new players on the market that run Android. Having the option to use Spotify, music from the cloud or the ability to use any 3rd party player / software to play around with.
To be clear, i've only tested this with my undisputed IEM headphones, the Phonak Audeo PFE-232 with custom molds. I've owned many before, the most famous being the Shure SE535's, but none of them gave me the experience the PFE's do. For those who don't know these headphones. I would describe them as laid back. Where the Shure's are more mid centered and much more upfront and live-like, the PFE's are more balanced and controlled, with much better lows and excellent highs with zero his. It's always in control, where the Shure's just became messy in some situations with a metallic sounding high and too much his for me. The treble of the PFE is just right. It's warm, but has great resolution, so i would consider this between neutral and warm. Choosing your DAP is depending on your headphones of course. After years of exploring i found the one that suit me most, so they are my "fixed variable" in this pairing.
Before i start i want to make clear both are definitely better sounding DAP's then my X3.
Cayin i5 Sound
After reading some reviews i decided to go with the Cayin i5. Not easy to get here, but i found a shop.
Received it last week and first impression was good. Build is sturdy, really LOVE the volume control, and interface is nice and had no problems so far.
But the sound. Hm, it underwhelmed me at first, later i found out that it also depends a lot on the type of music you play. The first thing to notice is that the i5 definitely is on the warm side. Not just warm, i would also call it veiled. Where the sound of the X3 is more upfront and direct, the i5 sound has a more distant placement. Once music swells up it comes more close, but not to a point where i feel very satisfied. What i also noticed was that the sound-stage is much wider then the X3. So in terms of presentation of the instruments it feels more separated in a horizontal spectrum.
When i was in bed, listening to the soundtrack of Memoirs of a Geisha, it got to me, finally. I never experienced this album so intimate before. There was a blackness in the background and a nuance in the sound presentation that was really exciting. There was layers in depth and separation in width. The only thing was that it was still in the distance, it still felt i wasn't part of it and felt more as a distant memory then a actual event. But in this case it added to the suspense and also helped falling asleep
Also the Cornfield Chase of Hans Zimmer's Interstellar soundtrack, even though not as punchy or dynamic as the X3, has a very nice flow and a pleasant warmth and suspense. The only downside is the bass that feels a bit muddy and not tight.
Listening to Rudimental - Feel the love it's quite clear it lacks the same punch and dynamics to really get this going. The same with Knive Party - Resistance. It felt too laid back and the bass quite lazy. Listening to Glen Hansard - "This Low" and "Falling slowly" the voice wasn't upfront enough and the guitar lacked some finesse.
So to me this player is really suitable for classical music, where highs can also be quite harsh and the i5 masks those harsh sounds beautifully. Mostly the mids and lows aren't exactly how i like it.It's a bit like all the band members / orchestra are in a circle. The singer in the middle being the furthest away. Adding to the surround / sound-stage effect, but lacking in intimacy of the mids with singer songwriter stuff and lacking the tight bass in music with beats and bass.
I want to add that by setting the gain setting to high does add more dynamic to the sound. But not enough to call it a sound changing experience.
Also we have to keep into account that it probably doesn't match very well with my IEM's too. I'm quite sure that the Shure's would match much better with this DAP. I'd really advice to have a very open, mid centered IEM to go with this DAP.
Fiio X7 Sound
So, a day after receiving and listening to the i5, i decided to order the Fiio X7. Being happy with the X3 it was a logical choice to give this DAP a chance, even though it's priced 200 EU higher. I chose to combine it with a AM2 amplifier having read the reviews, this seemed to be the best choice.
I'm now listening to the X7 most of the day and of course i've compared it with the same music as i did with the i5.
First up was the soundtrack of Memoirs as a Geisha, since that one surprised me most on the i5. What became clear right away is the more open and cleaner sound of the X7 with much more resolution. It really is presented less veiled, more upfront and detailed, you're more part of it. What also became clear is that the X7 has a smaller soundstage. So presentation is more in depth than width, but i didn't feel i lost resolution and detail because of that. And even though the treble of the X7 is much better, the suspense that i experienced on the i5 wasn't the same on the X7. The sound was definitely better in general, but the warmth of the i5 really goes well with classical instruments like violins and cellos. Also feeling of a black background is stronger with the i5, helping that suspenseful presentation.
Listening to Hans Zimmer's Interstellar it was clear that the X7 could just handle things better. There is a sense of control that's missing in the more busy parts on the i5. Partly because of the muddier bass. On the X7 it's just more controlled with a tighter bass, better treble and resolution. The Cornfield chase as an example. Where the i5 shined as a warm blanket it got interrupted by the somewhat weirdly placed and muddy bass after a minute, the X7 is more upfront, with greater detail, but without that laid back smoothness the i5 delivers, but the bass after a minute was much better then the i5 and added to the dynamics of the track. When you continue to the climaxes of "Day one" or "Mountains" there is just much more control and impact with the X7. Especially the bass is just much better and adds that warmth to the music naturally, where the i5 starts to lose focus with warmth and bass.
Going to Rudimental - Feel the love and Knive party - Resistance, it's not even a contest. The X7 just delivers that punch and drive the song demands and never loses control.
Also with Glen Hansard - "This Low" and "Falling slowly" the experience is more vibrant. The guitar and piano have more spark and detail, the voices are more upfront and in balance. With only the sound-stage being smaller.
I've tried all sorts of source files. MP3, FLAC, WAV in both Hi-Fi and HD qualities. There are differences for sure, but players seems to improve equally.
The only thing i noticed is that the X7, just like the X3, is a bit more forgiving with MP3 quality. Probably because of the warm nature of the i5. MP3's always seems to get a more warm sounding effect compared to lossless. So that doesn't help with the already warm i5.
Using it
Then, aside from the sound, i'd like to add a few more things of the devices in general.
The i5 wins hands down in UI. The skinned Hiby environment is really nice. It's stable and clear to navigate. Downside being that it's a bit more closed off from the general Android experience and i think the EQ without clear steps on a touchscreen is just plain annoying. I could install Spotify etc without issue. But it made me re-login every time i open it, which is quite an annoyance. Also the sound somehow changed, using the Spotify build-in renderer i'm sure. But closing it, going back to the native player, kept the (lesser - more background noise) sound rendering / settings of Spotify. Also overwriting any EQ setting. I had to explicitly kill all background tasks to reset it back to the native player's settings.
The volume wheel of the i5 isn't just a nice "audio like" design feature, but actually is great to use. It has enough resistance to not make it go by accident in your pocket and also makes it feel sturdy.
The responsiveness of the i5's touchscreen and performance is sub-par. It's not that great, but good enough.
The Fiio has a more open Android experience. But after the required OTA update and installing spotify i somehow started getting play store crashes. And not now and then, no, continuously, so much it was pretty much unusable. I had to boot into the bootloader and clear cache and go back to factory settings. It's ok now, for now. Hope it's going to stay so, otherwise it's going back.
In terms of responsiveness and touchscreen i feel it works much better then the i5. The buttons and volume control aren't as convenient as the i5.
Fiio also offers content from their own marketplace. Could have been a nice feature, especially because it contains Rockbox!, but it's all in Chinese, also Rockbox once you install it. So useles for most western people.
Design
Hard to compare. They take a different approach. The i5 is more classical looking, timeless, but also a bit boring maybe. I'm not a big fan of the pinkish metal color. In terms of a design feature with function you can't deny the volume control. It's just excellent. The white indicator light however, different story. Once that thing starts blinking (when it's charging) it's really annoying.
The Fiio takes a more modern approach. The edges are smoothened giving that fancy shine on the edges that has become so popular with for instance the iPad's and slick smartphones. I like that. I'm not so sure about the blue led shining all the time, it's not as invasive as the white i5 light. Haven't checked if it can be turned off. It's adding to a more spacy theme which i don't mind. The X7 somehow has a better feel in the hand. Even though it's bigger (longer) and a tad heavier. Width is pretty much the same.
To summarize
I guess the general trend of this review has been going in favor of the Fiio. But i need to address some nuances. The i5 is definitely a very competitive package. There are a few things to consider.
First off all, if you like "B&W" like sound, where music isn't about being clinical but a warm blanket to comfort yourself with, really consider the i5.
Secondly, if you have a very open, live-like, mid-centered headphone, consider the i5 as well. That could really be a match made in heaven.
Thirdly, the price is +- 200 (30 - 40%) less then the X7, which is ofcourse quite a lot of money. Especially if you match this point with any of the first two together with budget being an issue, pick the i5.
Actually i quite like the i5's warmer and relaxed sound. It's not what i disliked really. What i disliked most was the placement of the sound. It was positioned quite far away, more veiled. With mid centered music it just didn't work for me, the balance was off. The lows are a tad lazy and more boomy, but i could have lived with that if the positioning and mids would be a bit more upfront, just a bit more engaging. The i5 has a wider sound-stage though, which really works well with classical music, especially with it's warm timbre. With other genres i however felt the sound-stage was unnaturally wide.
Considering my fixed variable is my favorite IEM, which is on the warm / laid back side of the spectrum, for me the X7 really excels more. I gets more out of my IEM. Lows, mids, highs and treble are all in better balance. The music is more crisp, detailed and has a more natural timbre to the instruments. It's more dynamic and involving. To be picky, the sound-stage could be a tad wider
I'm sure i will update this post a few times later with new findings or changed opinions
