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Cayin i5 Lossless Android DAP with AKM4490 DAC supporting 32/384 PCM + 64/128 DSD

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by nmatheis, Mar 21, 2016.
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  1. bluedolphin
    Here is Cayin i5 with my Denon Ah-400 headphones look nice a pity i might have to return it because of the 2 minute lag on conecting it to pc
  2. bluedolphin
    Yes i see the video now it conect fast , it must be on this Cayin i5 i have. what firmware are you using this is how it should conect very fast not like 1-3 minuts like mine
    i can not keep it if i cannot fix that
  3. Vitalii
    I'm using firmware 2.0. But if you have 2.2 installed, you can return to 2.0 if you find firmware 2.3 on the network.
    Perhaps the firmware will not fix the situation if the problem in the player itself.
    And yet, you have this driver installed: http://en.cayin.cn/download/show?id=13481
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  4. bluedolphin
    I grabbed my camera and this came out
  5. bluedolphin
    I thinking of rolling back to Factory setting will this reset the firmware back to how it come with Cayin i5
    then i could install 2.0 instead of 2.2 see if that fixed the problem
  6. etteoh
    After flashing to 2.2, did you do a factory reset? That's a step that's recommended even on iBasso players. Otherwise you can give the 2.3 beta firmware a shot as Vitalli suggested. I think AndyKong shared the host location before somewhere in this thread. If you have difficulties locating it, drop me a PM.
  7. etteoh
    Generally MTP should connect fast like the video Vitalli posted. The same is said for mine.
  8. Andykong
    Now this is constructive. You are sharing your experience, and you are welcome to do this again.

    I have no problem if you shared your experience with i5, and you can share it again if you genuine think doing it again will help other users or potential users. However, please take a look on what you have posted recently:

    Now these are NOT constructive.

    You have accused repeatedly that Cayin has abandoned the i5 BECAUSE OF N3, in this thread as well as in other DAP discussion thread, and you have predestinated Cayin will abandon N3 on the day we release a new DAP.

    You have discredited i5 because of the imperfect gapless feature. You have stated that gapless is a must and presumed feature in DAP. While this is a debatable statement given there are numerous DAPs that can't play gapless perfectly, I thank you for raising this issue repeatedly as you are steering consumers away from a wrong decision: if gapless is important to them, they really should evaluate the issue carefully before they purchase i5, The fact is Cayin never hide from the fact that we are unable to improve the gapless performance of native Hiby player in i5 as of today. Whenever I was consulted in open discussion or PM, I raise the gapless issue and remind my potential customers to consider this problem before they make up their mind.

    The issue is, are you doing this because you want to contribute? If people receive your messages positively and believe you are being helpful while you do this, I'll embrace you with open arms even you are pointing out our shortcomings everyday. The HeadFi forum is meant for sharing and helping each other as a community, we stay here because we are passionated, not because of anger or hatred. Therefore if you are doing this for the sake of causing damage to Cayin or HiBy, you should not be surprised that people will be frustrated by your repeated and repeated messages. Trusted me, they can differentiate vent from contribution.

    My last advice to you as a fellow Headfi friend: don't let the dissatisfaction of i5 damaged your music and Headfi hobby, don't drive yourself into anger or hatred. Headphone is supposed to be a mean for music appreciation, Please move on and maximize your satisfaction from music or equipment hunting.
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
    JaeYoon, Brooko and twister6 like this.
  9. Andykong
    Let's stick with the MTP mode first, you can get i5 connected to your PC in MTP mode instantly, but your PC cannot access to the folder in MTP mode, you can only read the folder structure, is this what we are struggling with right now?

    Can you create a new folder in the internal memory?

    If you can create a new folder, can you drag and drop the new folder to the Music Folder?

    Cay you copy a music file to the root of internal memory?

    If you can do that, can you scan the player? Will i5 identify the music file you have copied?

    Can you drag and drop a new folder contain several file to the root of internal memory of i5 ?

    What is the error message when the PC refused to do any of the above?

    The delays you are referring to in #3387 and this post are happened at usb mode exclusively? You have tried two PC in total, "Another PC" is Windows 8 based and it take 50sec to connect, the First PC is Windows 10 based and it take 2 min 10 sec to connect? Am I correct?

    I have read through all your messages and I still can't determine the root cause of the delay problem. I cannot agree that your tests lead to a conclusive decision that the i5 is the root cause of the delay. I suspect a corrupted device driver in the very beginning, but if it doesn't seem to be the case after I read through all the message.

    You have mentioned "other DAP" can be connected to the PC, can you tell me a little bit more about this? What DAP have you tried out with? Alternatively, did you try to connect your mobile phone to these two PC in USB mode?

    Thanks for helping out. I have prepared a video to demonstrate the speedy connection between i5 and PC,but I can't upload the video to youtube until I get back to Hong Kong, and I am glad that you have already uploaded a video already,

    For the record, i5 wrok with my notebook (Windows 10) and Desktop (Windows 8.1) promptly, exactly like the Youtube video from Vitalii.:beerchug:

    But he can't access to the internal memory of i5 in MTP mode, the best he can see is the folder structure. This is the strangest part of the problem.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  10. bluedolphin
    Yeah, i didnt install anything after flashing anyway but restored to factory, after i did firmware still stayed 2.2 and didnt roll back to 2.0 as i though
    so still have the 2 minuts delay usb conection on Pc.

    The problem is if i update some songs in a hurry and have to sit wait 2 minuts until cayin i5 docks to my pc, thats way too long
  11. bluedolphin
    Thank you for help i realy apreciate that.
    I conected Cayin i5 by MTP mode now, conected by USB3 port wont conect at all, Conected by USB 2 port which i also have worked , cayin i5 showed up instantly
    I see Cayin i5 folder as MTP so i clicked on it on PC there is only one Folder called Music there is empty when i click on it.
    I created a New folder it worked, I dragged the new folder to the music folder it showed up there
    i Copyed a music file to root of internet memory in Mtp it showed up in root folder in MTP mode on pc, i then unplugged cayin i5, then scanned All music and song showed up correctly with album art.
    I plug it in by MTP again song is still there, I drag and drop a new Album a folder with several files to the root , it worked and i unplug Cayin i5 and scan all music on player and the whole album show up with correct album art.

    I do get a Error warning when copying file to MTP root of internal memory of player this is the warning
    It might be the files you are copying over will not work on your audiodevice will you want to copy it anyway, i click yes and it copy
    there is a button where i can choose always copy files over without asking , then i can move albums over without this warning, but thats only until i unplug cayin i5
    plug it in again in mtp mode and copy files again then i get the warning again thats a little anoying but atleast it work

    I permitted myself to do futher test on the steps your provided so what i did is after having moving over a whole music album to internal root in MTP mode i moved it into Music (the only folder showing up in MTP)
    and after plugging out the Cayin i5, I Scanned tthe album folder on Cayin i5 and the Album showed up fine with album art, Then my futher test all by myself i came up with this idea so this is what i did:

    I unplug cayin i5, I know that when i plug it in again by MTP the Album folder i moved over first in root then in music folder will be there in Pc mtp mode i can move it around or erase it if i want.
    Now what i needed to see is if it show up in USB mode so i contect Cayin by USB mode , i sit and wait 2 minuts until USB mode detect Cayin i5 (i think Cayin i5 search all over my pc until it finaly find the drivers for it somewhere after 2 minuts)

    Now i am in USB Mode finaly after almost falling asleep, I have now many folders as is normal in Usb mode, I go into the Music Folder and EUREKA there it is the album folder i transfered in MTP mode and scanned on player
    it can be acessed, moved, renamed or erased without a problem, no warning message in this usb mode

    This means every time i want to move a new album over to Cayin i5 i can just move it directly to Music folder in MTP unplug cayin i5 and rescan all music and it show up
    That made me so happy i can jump and dance of joy.

    But then i remember i do update every week my own album where i have all the new songs inside a album, i usaly erase the album on cayin i5 and move the new updated album folder over again
    this i do several times a week so i always have the updated album (which work like a playlist or chartlist) i can have several of this personal albums idtagged so it show up as a album on player and is realy for me better than playlist
    because i can in a instant drag this personal album folder from Pc to any mp3 player and hence use the same playlist album on all mp3 player, therefor i use this metod over creating a playlist on a audio player.

    Now the problem is I have created this Album in USB mode, i scanned it on cayin i5 and it show up on cayin i5 but when conecting to MTP mode it dont show up
    since MTP mode seem to only show what has been created and moved over in MTP mode, but USB mode show everything that has been created and moved over in both USB and MTP mode.

    i will do some futher test now, see if i can erase that playlist album in Usb mode then conect to MTP mode and copy over the Album rescan the cayin i5 to make it show up
    then update the album on pc with a new song use tag and rename software to get it in correct order, then transfer to cayin i5 in MTP mode , rescan cayin i5 to see if it update correctly
    and then i want to see if this updated album folder will show up in both MTP and USB Mode, seem like i have to move most of my music over in MTP mode (however this will only work on USB 2 ports but i have 2 USB PORTS, and 2 USB 3 ports)
    that part is no problem a little bit slower moving over a song but thats okay, i will do this test now and come back with more answers.

    Thank you
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  12. bluedolphin
    Andykong Now did futher tests I erased Playlist Album in Usb mode, since this album was transfered in usb mode it didnt show in MTP mode so i had to acess it in usb mode to delete it, and then it deleted from player.
    Then i regtagged playlist album on pc updating with different songs so it became different personal chartlist top 40 (aka my own playlist)
    Now i moved this album folder to cayin i5 in MTP cayin i5 conected to pc in 5 seconds, after moving over the album unplugged player then rescanned cayin i5 and Eureka the new updated album i made showed up with new songs on player
    I then conected player by USB mode too see if album was there also, and yes it showed up under music in Usb mode too.

    Seem that music moved over in MTP mode show up in both MTP and USB mode on pc but not so if music is moved over in USB mode then it show up only in USB MODE not in MTP mode
    and I have to use Usb metod to acess music, But that is what i dont want since USB mode take 2 minuts for cayin i5 to conect to one pc, and 1 minut on the other pc too slow for me, have to go back to MTP which take 5 seconds to conect to pc.

    Now i did this, I wanted to updated the Playlist album again (as i will do this several times a week it must work fast) so i plugged cayin i5 by MTP and deleted the playlist Album folder i moved over by MTP before
    since last time it was moved over by MTP not USB i could see it and delete it in MTP mode thats good.
    Then i unplugged Cayin i5 then conected it by USB mode to be surprised that the album was deleted also from USB mode that was good as it should be.
    Now i went into TagandRename (my favorite idtag software on Pc easy to use so love it) then i moved in some new songs in the album and retagged the playlist album again.
    Now my top 40 weekly playlist has been updated again, time to transfer in a hurry (USB mode Blahhh 2 minuts no good for me) So i conect Cayin i5 by MTP
    since the Playlist album was transfered this time by MTP and transfer the new one.

    Now for the fun Before when i erased an album using either MTP or USB mode
    i unplugged cayin i5 and without rescan the music library i was curious if the song that had been erased would play
    So i checked and the album showed up with album arts and tracklist but clicking songs gave I/O ERROR
    haha which is normal since i deleted it songs not there , once rescanned music library on cayin i5 it got totaly removed thats good.

    On older music players i have after i move over songs from pc i plug out player and then player turn off, when i turn players on it rescan music library automaticly and songs there updated.
    On Cayin i5, is different i unplug cayin i5 after transfer music from Pc, then rescan music library manually without rebooting cayin i5, But you have to unplug the player
    if you rescan music library without removing the player from Pc it wont update the new songs that has been transfered, player must be unplugged from pc then rescan music library on player.

    I finished with this test now, And going To Eat breakfast but i am happy to say If i erase all Music (not so many yet) transfered by USB mode, and do it from now on by MTP
    All the music i transfer will show up in both MTP and USB mode in the future so i can erase it both from MTP and USB

    Is strange that music i transfered in usb mode will not be seen in MTP mode, but music i transfer in MTP mode will be seen in both MTP and USB mode.
    I guess i have to work from MTP to transfer songs, I will get this little warning message on windows that songs might not work on Cayin i5 which they do (i tested the songs with headphones and it play just fine)
    if could just get this warning message away i click not show up again, i can then transfer 100 of songs but as soon i unplug and plug in player again by MTP and transfer song again i get this message again.

    I think the problem i having in USB mode is a conflict between Google Android and Microsoft windows (but is not only this pc is more pc so is a google-microsoft issue)
    This is what i think that USB mode is used by Google android protocoll and have conflict with Usb drivers on some windows pcs
    while MTP mode which is not so detailed is not Google android but Cayin software and work better with My windows since Google not conflict with windows.

    Now i will eat breakfast then come back and answer the others comments.
    I glad im progressing, maybe i can keep cayin i5.
    Thank you Andykong

    However i did experience yesterday 2 times that Hibymusic Crashed so not sure if is 100% stable on cayin i5
    that is the one that come with the player, crash message, that Cayin i5 hibymusic stop responding then button to click ok
    then cayin i5 turn off and had to turn on again. happened 2 times, was not doing anything other than browsing music .
    So still not sure if there is some problem with this Cayin i5 and is overheating a bit get a little warm on back side.
  13. Andykong

    The warning you received is quite normal, I believe the system has detected the metadata in your music folder and remind you that part of the metadata “might” not be supported in the “target” device (i.e., the i5). I run into this very often, especially when I copy Apple lossless files (ALAC and AIFF) from PC to DAP, you act sensibly but as you have noticed, you need to endorse the reminder again after you unplug the i5 from your computer.

    So MTP mode is working, but you can’t see other system folders, only the Music folder is available in MTP mode. This is different from my own setup. The photos below are screen capture of i5 connecting to my Lenovo notebook in MTP mode. Not all folders will show up but definitely more than just the Music Folder.

    Clipboard03a.jpg Clipboard04.jpg

    Please be reminded that MTP stands for Media Transfer Protocol, so only the folders that contain “Media” will show up, I guess our computers have different definition of “Media”, I am not an expert in Windows system so I can’t be sure, but that probably explained why you can only see ONE folder in the MTP mode. The important part is, MTP mode is working all the time.

    I think you have put it the other way round. When you connect i5 to a computer in USB mode, the computer becomes the host of the connection, not i5. So Cayin i5 didn’t search all over your pc and causing the 2 minutes delay. It’s the PC that dominates the connection process. It looks as if the PC is trying to make the connection and run into something that it can’t resolve, and it just sit there to wait for a process to “time-out”.

    You see more folders in USB mode because the system will not differentiate the content and display everything that are accessible. So unless you have set the compute to hide the system files or files with certain suffix, you should be able to see all system and data file in USB mode, not just media file in MTP mode.

    You don’t receive the warning in USB mode because you are copying data files as-is. MTP mode copy media files and will diagnosis the file before they write a new file on the target device.

    I am not entirely sure about your problem in this part, I’ll give it a try anyway. The Album view of i5 are based on the “ Album Title” field of ID3 tag in your music file, you cannot “create” your own album by grouping them together into a folder. If you want to create your own album and require i5 to display them as one album, you need to amend the field “Album Title” with a third party music tag application. ON the other hand, you can “play” them like a personal album by using the Folder view of i5 without editing the ID3 fields.

    I hope we have resolve most of your “urgent” problems already. I have some personal arrangement during the weekend so I’ll get back to you regarding the way we organize Album Art in i5 early next week.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    Cayin Stay updated on Cayin at their sponsor page on Head-Fi.
  14. bluedolphin
    Before i eat breakfast i will answer your other question Andykong
    Yes the Conection delay conecting cayin i5 to pc
    happen only in USB MODE not in MTP mode.
    it happen on all my Pc not only one, on one pc it take 2 minuts to conect in Usb mode
    and on the other it take 50 seconds

    On All Pc happen the same, i must wait 2 minuts until it conect
    after 1 minuts and 30 seconds portable drive I apear (if i click on it pc window freeze)
    that happen in all pc not only one , theres nothing realy in Portable drive I

    then after i wait 30 seconds more in total 2 minuts
    then Drive E apear (drive I dont go away) then if i click Drive E when is fully conected
    I can acess content on Cayin i5 and move files over.
    But if i click Drive E before it fully conect, Window freeze and have to unplug player and plug it in again
    and wait another 2 minuts happen on all my pc and only usb mode

    In MTP mode there is no Risk of Freezing of windows
    btw, not the whole windows itself freeze in Usb mode only window where folders is
    so i dont have to reboot windows, only unplug and plugin cayin i5 again.
    What i did experience was if i plug in Cayin i5 with Wifi conected then after 2 minuts i can move files on pc
    then plug it out (i dont transfer music by wifi only have wifi on when conected to pc, there is no wifi card on my desktop pc anyway)

    Then i disconected Cayin i5 from Wifi and my surprise when i plugged cayin i5 in pc again
    after 1 minute i got a Blue screen on Pc related to Wifi that was turned off on Cayin i5
    that was strange.
    Also having wifi on or off dosnt matter conecting by USB mode still take 2 minuts

    Futher to answer your question
    The first PC the one i use most is Desktop PC and the one i mainly use
    is Windows 7 that take cayin i5 2 minuts to conect by USB mode

    The second Pc is Windows 8 laptop that take cayin i5 50 seconds to conect by USb mode

    The other dap i conect to Pc is mostly Cowon Plenue D and Cowon X9
    not sure if they conect by USB or MTP but they take 3 seconds to conect
    and i always only conect one Audio player at a time and unplug it before conecting another.

    My Mobile phone i dont use anylonger battery issue havent got a new mobile yet
    so could not try it, i remember it usualy conected fast on both pc.
    mobile phone is android samsung.

    Something to point out however when Cayin i5 conect by USB
    and i right click the device on PC to see if i can upgrade driver
    I then get that this device is already installed
    Microsoft WPD FileSystem Volume Driver
    this is the driver Cayin i5 use for Usb mode conected to pc?

    so if i should choose upgrade driver MTP USB driver shoud show up
    but windows detect this driver to choose from
    Microsoft WPD FileSystem Volume Driver

    and In USB mode seem like cayin i5 on my Pc detect as a SD Card reader
    which use this driver and not like a Portable usb player.
    I do not have a SD Card reader.

    in MTP mode cayin i5 conect another way and probaly use another driver
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  15. Vitalii
    My message was lost in a bunch of other messages, so I'll repeat it.
    I noticed that bluetooth does not work correctly. If I connect to the system in the car and then reboot the i5 or car audio system, I do not reconnect. Even if the top curtain is turned off and then back on, bluetooth connections also are not present. You can reconnect two devices only if you go directly to the bluetooth settings and choose the desired device there.
    Also does not work pause with bluetooth connection, on any devices.
    This is a serious defect in the engineers cayin. Correct this please.


    Reinstall the driver(I gave you a reference to it earlier) and try another cord to connect to the PC, after these actions I think your problem will be solved by itself.
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