[LabelH]

So using the C9 under the Pre In mode, I am using the whole Max as a DAC and Preamplifier with the C9 acting as a Power-Amplifier.

This is basically my Max sound signatures Mixed up and amplified with C9 signatures together

This is good if you have high end flagship DAP that you love the sound signatures but want to amplify it correctly without double amping!!

When you see this LED ON, Please turn down your DAP volume to 0
It won’t be on until you hold it in for 5 seconds or so
You can go deaf if you don’t turn down your DAP volume

The case reminds me of mouse weight reduction mod

 

[jonstatt]

Ah. I can't remember if I was in low gain. I will check.

I was trying different combinations to see what was influencing the sound leakage in the left channel. Then suddenly noticed the distortion too.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will report back.

@Andykong you were right! I had it on high gain and it was distorting due to overload. Thank you.

 

[jonstatt]

Sorry, I was misunderstood the context. Ignore what i said previously.



Settings:
SE > BAL (Line Out 1.05V/3V), Low Gain, timbre SS + Class A and Spotify

Disclaimer: i don't have golden ears, take my finding as from noob

- LO 1.05V/3V, sound brickwalled (thanks I learn something new), vocal seems louder than usual, there is distortion? at some point around 2:59-3:04
- Without LO, vocal loudness more balance than LO, distortion? at 2:59-3:04, less noticeable

It's already midnight here, I will try again with song that i familiar in the next morning

Thanks for doing the experiment so late! I found I had high gain which was definitely overloading. Even on low gain though the N8 line out sounds better than SP2K. I am not so impressed here. Will try pre out mode without killing my ears like @Whitigir !!!

 

[denis1976]

I have been trying different sources and I found that with an SP2000 in line out mode, it causes distortion with certain tracks . I have to come out of line out and turn the volume manually.

You have to check it out, because I have my sp2000 connected to my hi-fi home system has a source and with 3volts and never had any distortion, something is wrong...never tried 6volts.... My amp is not balanced

 

[denis1976]

Wait. This confuses me. How are you not double Amping in this scenario?

Maybe the dx220Max has variable line out

 

[eskamobob1]

Maybe the dx220Max has variable line out

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't LO by defenition not variable?

EDIT: again. Please correct me if I'm wrong (sources are kinda new to me), I thought volume control was the whole difference between LO and pre-out (both of which bypass the amp stage and just use an attenuator, correct?)

 

[Whitigir]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't LO by defenition not variable?

EDIT: again. Please correct me if I'm wrong (sources are kinda new to me), I thought volume control was the whole difference between LO and pre-out (both of which bypass the amp stage and just use an attenuator, correct?)

Line Out can be variable if the Volume is digital, which most DAP are. Many of them disguise themselves by just firmware controlling it to be at max volume instead to keeps the idea of (LO not variable)

Pre-out is as you said, but involves an analog attenuations instead of digital

 

[Whitigir]

Wait. This confuses me. How are you not double Amping in this scenario?

The C9 has Pre-In feature. Read it in the first post. Here is a screen shot. Look at the top left corner of the C9

Maybe the dx220Max has variable line out

no, max has only variable DAC volume. Line out is totally by passing the amp, so analog attenuations will not work. The DAC volume is adjustable

 

[denis1976]

So the volume is not controled by the volume knob but by the digital 0 to 150 dac volume setting?

 

[Whitigir]

So the volume is not controled by the volume knob but by the digital 0 to 150 dac volume setting?

In the Max ? Max is a 2 devices in one, a DAC with it own battery (also has digital attenuations), and an Amp with it own battery and analog attenuations. You can look at it as a system that consists a DAC and an Amp. You you can always adjust the DAC volume alone, and then the Amp Volume alone.

 

[denis1976]

I know, I had one

 

[bluestorm1992]

Let me see if I understand the difference between line-in and pre-in correctly.

Line-in of C9: The volume is controlled by C9. The source (DAP) will have a fixed volume, and the AMP section in the DAP is completely bypassed. By doing this, we are mostly experiencing the sound signature of C9 as it is taking up the AMP job.

Pre-in of C9: The volume is controlled by the source (DAP), and both the DAC and AMP sections of the DAP are activated. In this case, C9 is like a power amp that "boosts" the signals that feed into it, without adding extra coloring to it. Hence, we are mostly experiencing the sound signature of the DAP.

 

[denis1976]

I was just thinking that it would be easier if the dac worked directly bypassing 100% the gain stage amp or the pré amp

 

[Whitigir]

I was just thinking that it would be easier if the dac worked directly bypassing 100% the gain stage amp or the pré amp

The Max has the gain stage and the Amp 100% Bypassed when using line out.

 

[Whitigir]

Let me see if I understand the difference between line-in and pre-in correctly.

Line-in of C9: The volume is controlled by C9. The source (DAP) will have a fixed volume, and the AMP section in the DAP is completely bypassed. By doing this, we are mostly experiencing the sound signature of C9 as it is taking up the AMP job.

Pre-in of C9: The volume is controlled by the source (DAP), and both the DAC and AMP sections of the DAP are activated. In this case, C9 is like a power amp that "boosts" the signals that feed into it, without adding extra coloring to it. Hence, we are mostly experiencing the sound signature of the DAP.

The point of any Preamplifier is to Amplify a weak signals while influencing the signals with the Preamplifier sound signatures before it can then be amplified by the Power Amplifier and be influenced again by the power amplifier sound signatures.

So, you like your LPGT TI for example, but somehow you wished that you could have some Tube distortions. Normally you would use
Line out from LPGT to external tube amp ?

What if you also like the tuning and voicing signature of the LPGT TI when it does amplifications from the Headphones out ? Just a touch of Tube signatures to perfection ? You can not do it properly because you will be facing double amplifications. You will hear distortions, and deformity of soundstage Or imaging? Unless you could somehow treat the Phones out as a Preamplifier signal

The solution to this is to use C9 and tube timbres. Then flip the switch to Pre-in and enable Preamplifier mode on the side

This is similar to any large speakers. Normally you will see people set it up so all 3 pieces of : DAC-Preamp-PowerAmp to be synergized in the way they prefer the whole system to be

Of Course each piece of them 3 will carry their very own signatures.

This features was mainly aimed toward those players that has never offered a Line Out like Walkman WM 1Z for example

Now, how does Cayin get it done ? No one knows! The C9 is the first of it kinds, unless Cayin feel like enlightening us, otherwise these are the use cases

It is also interesting that you can try Cayin N8 with Korg Tube SE as a Preamplifier into a C9 with Tube input stage for a power Amp !! Korg and Korg. Both the N8 and C9 use Korg tube as Input amp stage as their blocks are showing. This is the block of N8