Car Speakers, best frequency?

  1. MrMan
    I currently own a 2014 chevy cruze and I'd love to switch out all the stock speakers for something with a fuller range. Infinity PR6512IS seem to be the only ones I can find that will fit in the stock locations. Any ideas ?
     
  2. ProtegeManiac Contributor
    If you're not willing to modify the stock mounts then you're pretty much stuck with that. Just note that sometimes website compatibility only takes into account the mounting ring size, not the depth needed to fit the basket and magnet, or on the front side, the tweeter for a coaxial driver.

    If your concern about having speakers fit in all mounting locations coming from the same series you can always just not bother with the rear speakers. Home speakers only have two - Left and Right - anyway, and even if you listen to music on an HT system only L and R are working unless 1) you enable Dolby ProLogic.or enhanced stereo or whatever (which doesn't help imaging anyway) or 2) you're watching a concert where at minimum you have audience sounds on the rear speakers (your car will not process this that way unless you have a 5.1 media HU). If it has a separate passive crossover with bi-amp terminals you can even use the Front-Rear bias control on the stock speaker to for example lower the output on the tweeters by wiring the front speaker output to the mdiwoofer input and the rear output to the tweeter input and then biasing the sound to the Front.
     
  3. MrMan
    When you modify the stock mounts is it something that can be reversed? I currently own a pair of Rokit 8's for my computer and I absolutely love that sound. My dream would be to get that sound in a car which I think is gonna be impossible.
     
  4. Th3Drizzl3
    meh the primus line is average at best i wouldnt go there myself. lots of stuff should fit that car. where have you looked?
     
  5. MrMan
    Give me suggestions. Ideally I'd love to try and find door speakers that go lower then 40hz. I want to be able to hear the most music I can. With headphones even the cheapest headphones will give you 20-20khz so its not an issue.
     
  6. ProtegeManiac Contributor
    That depends on what's needed and how far you're willing to go. If the magnets are too deep then one way to make it reversible is tomake a fiberglass mold of the door panels and make something fully custom, then set aside the stock interior panel (the problem is matching the finish to the rest of the car).

    At the same time if you're after that kind of sound, you reeeeeeeeeeeeally need to go much farther than just being able to cram some good speakers into the doors. For a start, your car isn't a Maclaren F1, so your head is closer to the driver side speaker than the passenger side speaker; that gets even more complicated with separates where your head is closest to the driver side tweeter, then the driver side midwoofer, then the passenger side tweeter, the passenger side midwoofer, and then finally there's a subwoofer in the back.

    You might recognize that that looks nothing like sitting smack between two cabinets with proper toe-in angles where the midwoofer and tweeter are right next to each other, which is why fully custom installations are necessary for those who really want to have a system that sounds like a nearfield monitor at home, with the tweeters and midwoofers on angle mounts to minimize glare on the driver side (being closer to the driver) while also minimizing reflections off the windshield, and then to deal with the fact that very few people have a Maclaren F1, a car audio processor that delays each tweeter and midwoofer so they all arrive at the driver's ears at the same time as each other and the subwoofer. Which will also screw up the sound for the passenger (and you might notice that these set ups totally ditch the rear speakers). Problem with that is that the time delays have to be done by a digital processor, which means this is done before the DAC, so by the time they leave the processor the signals have not been amplified yet. That means the tweeters and midwoofers, plus the sub, all need separate amplification channels. So not only do you need a $600++ DSP, you're gonna need either a decent (otherwise you'd get all the gimmickry and just use a crap amp) $600++ 5ch amp or, if more power is needed, two high power stereo amps (one for the tweeters, one for the midwoofers; or a dual mono amp that has separate gain settings for each side), plus really good speakers.

    This is IASCA champion Scott Buwalda's Altima with six dual mono amplifiers. He needs three to run the tweeters and midrange up on the sail panels on the doors, and 8inch midbass drivers in the lower part of the front door panels, and then mounted three 12inch subwoofers likely because there are installation points and symmetry looks good (plus it's easier to reduce the gain on the subs and EQ the higher bass freqs down so everything is close to flat).
    [​IMG]

    Here's a Focal system. Note how the speaker angles need to be experimented on and how he mounted the subwoofer in the front to prevent phase cancellation or it vibrating the seat backs and making its location even more apparent as being in the back of the car. Nissans/Infinitis with Bose systems already do something like this but the subwoofer is more discreetly mounted.
    [​IMG]

    In short, you need to lower your expectations, otherwise you're really gonna have to go down the rabbit hole in DIYMobileAudio.com.

    If you can lower your expectations though there's a way to mount something reversible that won't cost a small fortune in professional labour (or your breaking anything doing it DIY) and won't need a lot of the complicated electronics. Just get a large 6in to 7in coaxial speaker and mount it in custom kick panels that way you don't have to mind the size and mount them on removable panels. These minimize the time alignment problems since 1) the driver side coax will be farther from you than when it's in the door while effectively the passenger side coax wouldn't be, 2) they're angled better, and 3) the tweeters are mounted coaxially to the midwoofer.

    Look up tutorials on YouTube and DIYMA, but the basic procedure for that is that you have to lay down a layer of tape, then resin, then build up layers of fiberglass (ie the fibers in resin) to get the rear section of the kickpanel mount molded to the same shape as the surrounding area (for a clean fit that doesn't waste space), let it dry (out in the open with all doors open); after that you take a wood mounting ring that will fit the speakers and mount it on pegs glued to the fiberglass at the right angle (normally I'd ask two buddies to help me aim them up and center properly, but if you don't want to do that, you can just aim both towards just a little bit forward of the rear view mirror); then when the glue dries you take the panels out, staple a sheet of cloth to the ring, then stretch to the all sides of the fiberglass and staple them there, then build up the outer layer of resin and fiberglass over the fabric. Stuff it with polyfill to slow down air movement from the back of the driver to absorb soundwaves as well as simulate a larger enclosure and don't forget to leave a hole for the cables (that you'd also need to be able to plug up; speaker terminals like on passive home speakers can also work). Layer on double sided tape, remove the original tapes used for the mold, and then stick them in there. Run speaker cables from the stock receiver into the box, seal up the hole, then connect the speaker cables to the coaxial driver. After that you can just bias the BAL control to make it louder on the passenger side, disconnect the rear speakers so they don't get in the way of the sound, and you're done.

    Here's a 6in Focal using the older design polyglass cone (although I wouldn't expect it to sound as good as the 165VR in my car, but then I blew $400+ on those back in 2008), which sounds close enough to the Rokit (both used polykevlar in the next tier up but Focal moved on to flax cones). Note it's not going to be anything like the Rokit 8's bass since they're smaller and they won't be in a tuned port box, more like the Rokit 5 at best. If you really want to replicate the Rokit 8 you'll need a sub (but without DSP and custom installs the bass will audibly come from behind you), or go all out like Scott Buwalda and mount 8in midbass drivers in the front of the car.
    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091ICU165/Focal-ICU-165.html?tp=78072
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018 at 12:01 AM
  7. MrMan
    Wow thank you for the response. There is a bunch to digest and see where I want to go. Right now on my car audio the bass all sounds like someone is stomping their foot on the ground. Doesn't matter what frequency the bass is it all sounds the same. And since some of the bass is missing it makes the sound piercing.
     
  8. ProtegeManiac Contributor
    It's more of the other way around: the sound is piercing so whatever bass is actually there that made it past cancellations by having the speaker in the door mount without totally isolating the front and rear of the diaphragm nor having the midwoofer blow sound out without the obstruction of an entire panel that can cause more cancellations as everything in the door rattles (ie, even if you mount the best Focal or SEAS drivers in there, it will just rattle the doors more unless your car happens to be a really stiff and heavy Mercedes) becomes even harder to hear when the high frequencies aren't just stronger but are getting reinforced as they bounce off hard surfaces like all that glass. That's why people not only deaden the doors, they cover the entire door panel with Dynamat on two sides (one to make the exterior metal heavier, one to isolate the front and rear of the woofer while preventing the mechanisms from rattling against metal or hard plastic) if not also mount the midwoofers in such a way that they're outside the panel; and then aim at least the tweeters with some toe-in to minimize reflections off the windshield (but not too much lest you end up with one tweeter firing straight to your face).
     

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