[Abouna]

OK, before biting the bullet I feel I need to throw a wrench into the works.

As I stated, he listens to pretty much 100% Classical. The listening will be divided between his laptop and his 256k MUVO, which does NOT have a lot of output. When cycling he will use his Creative CX300s. That said:

- I'm a bit concerned about the LDM not being very portable for use while cycling, as the PA2V2 clearly is.

- On the other hand, it doesn't sound like a good idea to mix the 580s with a PA2V2. Is this a good argument for the 501s (I know, I thought we had this hashed out already, sorry).

In other words, if he wants an amp for both IEMs and the big cans, should I reconsider the 501s (though I AM concerned about the soundstage)? Or should I go for the 580s unamplified (can a laptop drive these?) and just get him the PA2V2 for his IEM's?

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John - I'm a bit concerned about the LDM not being very portable for use while cycling, as the PA2V2 clearly is.

Compare the size of LDM to these objects...
http://www.little-tube.com/forum/for...sp?TID=22&PN=1
Its about same size with a pack of cigarettes, maybe even thinner.

 

[aznsensazian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John OK, before biting the bullet I feel I need to throw a wrench into the works. As I stated, he listens to pretty much 100% Classical. The listening will be divided between his laptop and his 256k MUVO, which does NOT have a lot of output. When cycling he will use his Creative CX300s. That said: - I'm a bit concerned about the LDM not being very portable for use while cycling, as the PA2V2 clearly is. - On the other hand, it doesn't sound like a good idea to mix the 580s with a PA2V2. Is this a good argument for the 501s (I know, I thought we had this hashed out already, sorry). In other words, if he wants an amp for both IEMs and the big cans, should I reconsider the 501s (though I AM concerned about the soundstage)? Or should I go for the 580s unamplified (can a laptop drive these?) and just get him the PA2V2 for his IEM's?

I still say you should go for the AKG K501 after have owned both pairs previously. The Senn HD-580 is too laid back and while intimate, a little veil when it comes to reproducing all of the intricacies involved with classical. The hd-580 definately has more bass than te k501, but not as tight as the k501. With classical, the hd-580 sounds okay. It tends to get a little conjested with certain passages. To me, the hd-580 is a jack of all trades and master of none type of headphone. Its good for every genre, but not necessarily the best at either. However, the AKG k501 is excellent with classical and classical is probably its strongest attribute. The k501 has a huge soundstage and produces the little finest details exceptionally well. The midrange does not put you in the back row imo, i would say that about the hd-580 more since its more laid back. The k501 puts you somewhere more upfront, not grado upfront, but somewhere in the middle. The huge soundstage and accurate details make for an excellent headphone for classical. Paired with the little dot micro, you cant go wrong. See my previous post on the ldmicro.

 

[Abouna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aznsensazian I still say you should go for the AKG K501 after have owned both pairs previously. The Senn HD-580 is too laid back and while intimate, a little veil when it comes to reproducing all of the intricacies involved with classical. The hd-580 definately has more bass than te k501, but not as tight as the k501. With classical, the hd-580 sounds okay. It tends to get a little conjested with certain passages. To me, the hd-580 is a jack of all trades and master of none type of headphone. Its good for every genre, but not necessarily the best at either. However, the AKG k501 is excellent with classical and classical is probably its strongest attribute. The k501 has a huge soundstage and produces the little finest details exceptionally well. The midrange does not put you in the back row imo, i would say that about the hd-580 more since its more laid back. The k501 puts you somewhere more upfront, not grado upfront, but somewhere in the middle. The huge soundstage and accurate details make for an excellent headphone for classical. Paired with the little dot micro, you cant go wrong. See my previous post on the ldmicro.

Point well taken. I had no idea this was going to be so complex.

After having read quite a few threads on the 580s, I'm a little leery that they will be noticeably veiled without better than LDM amping.

I just hung up the phone with headphone.com, they pretty much convinced me to try the 555s, as they are so efficient. I have to admit it is a temptation, eliminating the need for an amp.

On the other hand, the 501s w/an amp would be nice (from what I've read though the reviews of the LDM are definitely mixed), plus he's be able to use the amp for his canal phones and get some more volume.

I just don't know.

 

[Davesrose]

Well I owned both pairs untill about a couple hours ago (exchanging the k501s for Grados to see what they sound like). My take is completely opposite of aznsensazians. Maybe it's a difference in ears.....cause the 501s drivers are so recessed, it makes the soundstage huge IMHO. It's true that the 580s sound dark and bass heavy when not properly amped. But when they get more voltage, their tonality really opens up. When I tried plugging my k501s into a good source, their soundstage would increase and their tonality seemed to shrink. Which meant they got really laid back. They also have a treble roll off that makes it hard for me to enjoy chamber music with them....since the 580 is not as laid back to me, I enjoy it a lot more for classical. I listen to a lot of classical, and I esspecially like the 580s for chamber music, classical guitar, and various operettas. I have a 595 that I like more for big symphonies (really favor it over the 501 for symphonies, since it has a wider tonality). The 595s are brighter, but still have the bass extension that the 580s have (which is needed in a lot of classical since it's a very dynamic genre).

But for one headphone to chose from....I would still say pick the 580

Quote:

Originally Posted by aznsensazian I still say you should go for the AKG K501 after have owned both pairs previously. The Senn HD-580 is too laid back and while intimate, a little veil when it comes to reproducing all of the intricacies involved with classical.

 

[Davesrose]

oh....your response came while I wrote mine!!! I've heard there's a big difference between the 555 and 595. Get the 595 from Amazon if you want a headphone that's easier to drive. As my previous post said, it's a good can for symphonies IMHO

The only thing is that the 595 cans need some amping too. It does play alright straight off the ipod.....but it gets a lot of detail with a good amp.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John After having read quite a few threads on the 580s, I'm a little leery that they will be noticeably veiled without better than LDM amping. I just hung up the phone with headphone.com, they pretty much convinced me to try the 555s, as they are so efficient. I have to admit it is a temptation, eliminating the need for an amp.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John Point well taken. I had no idea this was going to be so complex. After having read quite a few threads on the 580s, I'm a little leery that they will be noticeably veiled without better than LDM amping. I just hung up the phone with headphone.com, they pretty much convinced me to try the 555s, as they are so efficient. I have to admit it is a temptation, eliminating the need for an amp. On the other hand, the 501s w/an amp would be nice (from what I've read though the reviews of the LDM are definitely mixed), plus he's be able to use the amp for his canal phones and get some more volume. I just don't know.

No matter how much we speak and how much me recommend different products, all it does is make one even more confused UNTIL you take a shot and listen one for yourself. Only your ears tell the final truth if you have made a good choice or not. But atleast it gives some indication what we are speaking about and might give you direction what kind of sound you wish it has and such.

HD555 is also very warm headphone IIRC, but it isnt as powerhungry as HD580 thats true. But bright amplifier is still recommended to neutralise some excessive warmth IMHO. HD595 is bit brighter (or more neutral actually) than HD555 and about as easy to drive.

 

[aznsensazian]

Here is a frequency chart of both headphones. You be the judge

 

[mirumu]

In my opinion the HD555 is about as far from the sound requested as you can get and the HD595 is not far behind. Fr. John is looking for the cleanest sound, the HD555 is murkiness central and the HD595 despite it's strengths is not particularly clean or transparent. Their velour pads are also get quite hot, and cans like that were ruled out in the request. I don't know about the K501 or HD580 having not heard either so will not comment there.

 

[Davesrose]

We're going to confuse Fr. John here!!!! If you're looking for a transparent headphone, neither the 501 or the 580s will be better then the 595. It's Stax or maybe the MS-1s for that. But the 580/595s and 501s are more comfortable (I listen to my 595s for 8 hours a day, and I don't think they get hot). And I think the 595 gets pretty well transparent while amped.

aznsensazian, frequency response graphs only say so much. But if you do want to look at that particular one, you'll see that the 580s do have more extension in the high treble regions. My problem with the 501s is that their detail seems lost in the soundstage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu In my opinion the HD555 is about as far from the sound requested as you can get and the HD595 is not far behind. Fr. John is looking for the cleanest sound, the HD555 is murkiness central and the HD595 despite it's strengths is not particularly clean or transparent. Their velour pads are also get quite hot, and cans like that were ruled out in the request. I don't know about the K501 or HD580 having not heard either so will not comment there.

 

[smeggy]

My final bid on this.

Stax sound great and has it's own amp.
MS1 sounds great direct from a laptop or DAP, no amp needed.
HD580 from a laptop or cheap amp will sound flabby and dull.

 

[Davesrose]

Fr. John's not going to like us for being so wishy washy

Well the 580s are damn fine cans with expensive equipment.....problem is it's a toss up how good they'll sound with a portable amp. MS-1s immediate transparency will help with listening to symphonies off an i-pod. Stax are best, but out of our price range.

So if no to the 595s.....then the MS-1s. If you can budget a little more go for the Stax.

 

[Abouna]

OK, I'm going to step back for a day or so and absorb.........as with most things I research, it's getting harder not easier.

Lets have some words about the comfort of the MS-1s? I read many places they are very easy to drive. Comfort is only a factor for 1-2 hours, he won't use them for longer stretches than that.

Besides the price range, the Stax reviews don't engender much confidence in the build quality.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose We're going to confuse Fr. John here!!!! If you're looking for a transparent headphone, neither the 501 or the 580s will be better then the 595. It's Stax or maybe the MS-1s for that. But the 580/595s and 501s are more comfortable (I listen to my 595s for 8 hours a day, and I don't think they get hot). And I think the 595 gets pretty well transparent while amped.

I agree that we're confusing him but he was very clear in his initial description. He asked for clean sound, "clarity NOT bass and power". I know if I posted the same request and ended up being convinced to buy a HD555 I'd be disappointed no end because they are almost the total opposite. Also, while the HD595 can be nice in the right conditions I don't feel it can really be considered clean and clear, with the wrong amp or music it can sound muddy, boring and distant relative to the music. Neither gets so hot that it bothers me personally but they are definitely hotter than any other headphones I've owned or tried. I'm not trying to make things worse, I'd just like to see Fr. John get as close to his request as possible.

Unfortunately I haven't had enough experience with other headphones in that price range, to make lots of suggestions. There's plenty more expensive ones that meet the requirements but they just aren't options. Based on my experience the Stax SR-001 is closest to the request by a large margin and comes with the amp. It's possible it may even be cheaper than $239 from somewhere like PriceJapan or EIFL, from Carl's comment it seems they may even be found under $200.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. John Besides the price range, the Stax reviews don't engender much confidence in the build quality.

I've seen many question the Stax build quality but not many actually having build related problems with them. For what it's worth, my SR-003s (identical earpieces to the SR-001) are well made although I do try to treat all my headphones carefully.