cannot hear difference using RSA Tomahawk w/ iPod dock

[gnychis]

Hey all,

So, now that I've had a couple days to sit with my RSA Tomahawk out of a 5.5G dockout with a TURBO diabolous and E500s ... I've come to the conclusion that I can hear absolutely *no* sound difference between this and plugging the E500s directly in to the headphone jack. For all tests I was using rockbox. I'd feel as though this is not normal, but maybe its just my ears?

So then, some would say "well, are you listening with mp3s?" Yes, I tried using mp3s >312kbps ... and I tried using FLAC lossless in rockbox and still can't hear a difference. Furthermore, I also tried to hear difference between FLAC lossless and 312kbps encoded mp3s (same album) and could not hear the difference. I literally spent hours on this just trying to hear a single difference between the tomahawk+dock and headphone jack, as well as lossless to mp3... and seriously couldn't. If you blind tested me, I'd never be able to tell. I was plugging the E500s directly in to the tomahawk and headphone jack, I was not using any extension cables or anything.

I wasn't sure if my E500s are not just very "ampable" or something like that... so I also tried with my sennheisers and some unbranded IEMs my friend has, and still heard no difference with and without the amp.

So, my question is... am i doing something wrong? Or can some people simply not hear difference? This is probably a subjective question that will get a subjective answer... but its all I can really do. I at least expected to hear a difference between the headphone jack and tomahawk+dock given its reviews here. Could my dock cable be the weakest link? Anyone else using a TURBO diabolous in this type of setup?

Thanks!
George

 

[GAD]

Some people can't hear a difference, and some people need to be shown where to listen for differences.

When I first got into amps I had a Headroom Micro amp using Ety ER4P phones and an ALO Cryo LOD. I was annoyed because I couldn't hear a difference. Someone gave me the following advice and I Was floored when it worked:

Listen with your LOD/Amp setup for a couple of weeks - don't do any more A/B testing in that time. After a couple of weeks, plug into the headphone jack and see if you hear a difference.

When I did this I was floored. The headphone jack suddenly sounded weak and cheap whereas the LOD/Amp setup sounded full and rich. I've been hooked ever since. About the only things I like listening to from the headphone jack anymore are TV shows on my 5.5 80G, though even that sounds better with the LOD and amp.

The difference is subtle, and I'd say that in my case, at first it was unnoticeable due to my untrained ear. When I started I couldn't hear the difference between 128k MP3 and the actual CD. Now anything below 256k makes me cringe.

Now after all of that, if you're happy with the headphone out, you might just want to say "I'm happy", stop spending money and walk away.

GAD

 

[EFN]

Yes, it happened to me in the early stages too. Amp or no amp it's all the same to me. Ignorance is bliss I ahve to say and for this reason iPods and many DAPs has been selling like hot cakes because the major masses are not bothered if their rig could sound better than they already are.

I am nearing to complete a year tenure listening to music through a dedicated Portable Amp and all I can say now is that I can never enjoy music if I have to listen to my iPod's headphone out.

The difference is subtle to untrained ears and most likely inaudible to those not used to it. The common mistake we make when judging amp is that we sometimes place too high an expectation of them.

BUT they do make difference - in terms of Dynamic, Transparency, PRAT, Smoothness/Harshness etc....all this term will be quite familar to you if you try hard enough.

For me, my SuperMicro-IV makes music all the livelier and 3 dimensional. I have owned a Tomahawk before and I am still impressed with that amp prowess driving IEMs. So, like GAD mentioned, stop AB-ing and just listen to them for a while, a long while. Then in a month or two ask a friend of yours to perform a blind test on you, switching between amp and headphone out - I have no doubt you will be able to tell which is which.

 

[Sieg9198]

I agree with GAD's method if you cant hear a difference, although I dont think a few week is needed.

A few days should be enough.

IMO, reverting back to a much inferior setup is much more obvious than upgrading, you'll immedieatly notice what is missing

 

[matt8268]

I agree with the "switch back" test. Also surprised you didn't have hiss with the e500 straight out of the iPod. Maybe Rockbox fixes that, but with Apple's OS my e500s hissed.

 

[omegaman]

When I have friends listen for the first time I try and tell them to listen for the cymbals these are usually a lot crisper through the amp and its one of the first things you notice easily after that you start to pick up on the other instruments.

Like GAD and the others say its not always the upgrade that hits you in the face but the downgrade after a lot of listening.

 

[NiceCans]

Then there are the cases where no matter what you do you cannot hear a difference, period.

I find amp changes are much less obvious than headphone or speaker changes, they are subtle and often take time and attention to pick out (although some claim to hear "night & day" differences).

I recently had occaision to compare two amps in my setup using several diferent headphones. Hard as I try I found myself working very hard trying to discern any difference whatsoever. I tried doing an A/B using a switch for instant change between amps and also tried using the method GAD posted.
I finally decided that if I needed to work that hard to detect a difference it was not worth my time, effort, or money for that "upgrade", in spite of many others claiming the difference was noticable.

Does that make my hearing less accurate than theirs? Perhaps.
Does that mean they are "hearing" a placebo effect? Perhaps.
Does either of these reduce my enjoyment of my rig? Not in the least.

In the end I kept the amp that many of the others sold after buying the model I decided not to keep. And my wallet was the clear winner

So if you can't hear it, then don't pay for it.

 

[GAD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiceCans /img/forum/go_quote.gif So if you can't hear it, then don't pay for it.

Agreed, though give it a chance. Like I said, if you're happy with the headphone out, you might just want to say "I'm happy", stop spending money and walk away. I have a good friend like this. He simply cannot hear the difference, so the money is better spent elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

GAD

 

[jirams]

Have you ever read or been read the tale of 'The Emperor's New Clothes' by Hans Christian Andersen? Look it up.