Can I Improve my HD600's?

[Andrew Shafer]

Hey everyone, first post!

I have had my HD600's for about 6 or 7 months now and I love them! I currently listen to them via Spotify on my laptop/tablet/phone on "extreme" quality. My question is: Would adding an amp or dac (or both) make them improve sonically or is what I'm getting now the best that would be possible without listening to music on a CD? If they cannot be improved than I am totally fine with that as I think they sound really good and they are super comfortable. One of the reasons why I bought them was for tracking guitar parts and listening to mixes as they are pretty flat response from what I can tell.

Thanks for the recommendations.

 

[serman005]

I also own the HD600. Adding a dac and amp would likely improve your sound quality significantly. There are many to choose from. We would need a budget in order to provide some recommendations. There are many good ones out there. Are you in the US by any chance?

 

[mysticstryk]

Yes, the hd6x0 series benefits greatly from an amp/dac.

 

[buke9]

For most laptops, tablets and phones a dac and amp would probably be a upgrade. When you say tracking guitar and listening to mixes what are you using ?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I have had my HD600's for about 6 or 7 months now and I love them! I currently listen to them via Spotify on my laptop/tablet/phone on "extreme" quality. My question is: Would adding an amp or dac (or both) make them improve sonically or is what I'm getting now the best that would be possible without listening to music on a CD? If they cannot be improved than I am totally fine with that as I think they sound really good and they are super comfortable. One of the reasons why I bought them was for tracking guitar parts and listening to mixes as they are pretty flat response from what I can tell.

You'll get cleaner power with better channel separation out of a headphone amp, and a DAC (whether separate or built into the same chassis as the amp) will give it a cleaner line signal to work with. Tighter bass, better imaging, etc.

As to whether you'll be able to hear that is something we can't answer for you since some people just can't. In some cases, when some do hear improvements, there's a problem: they're listening at a much louder level which by default sounds better assuming distortion and noise stay low, and at best, the laptop or whatever would be heavily distorted by then, but still a relatively unsafe listening level that you shouldn't listen to a whole album at (like maybe just crank it up for that one track or so).

If you want to try a low distorton and noise DAC and amplifier, try the AudioGD NFB-11, or save up and get the Meier Corda Jazz FF and JDSLabs ELDAC.

 

[Andrew Shafer]

I also own the HD600. Adding a dac and amp would likely improve your sound quality significantly. There are many to choose from. We would need a budget in order to provide some recommendations. There are many good ones out there. Are you in the US by any chance?

Ideally, $300 or less would be great. I do not want to put a ton of money into this (I've been down the rabbit hole with guitar and recording equipment- ouch!), but I would appreciate the better results of course. Yes, I am in the US.

For most laptops, tablets and phones a dac and amp would probably be a upgrade. When you say tracking guitar and listening to mixes what are you using ?

Just plugging the 3.5mm/1/4" cord into the jack coming out of the computer or rack (different studios have different equipment so not sure which). For home use, its just the standard sound card in the laptop.

You'll get cleaner power with better channel separation out of a headphone amp, and a DAC (whether separate or built into the same chassis as the amp) will give it a cleaner line signal to work with. Tighter bass, better imaging, etc.

As to whether you'll be able to hear that is something we can't answer for you since some people just can't. In some cases, when some do hear improvements, there's a problem: they're listening at a much louder level which by default sounds better assuming distortion and noise stay low, and at best, the laptop or whatever would be heavily distorted by then, but still a relatively unsafe listening level that you shouldn't listen to a whole album at (like maybe just crank it up for that one track or so).

If you want to try a low distorton and noise DAC and amplifier, try the AudioGD NFB-11, or save up and get the Meier Corda Jazz FF and JDSLabs ELDAC.

Thanks, some good advice. I think that since I do a lot of listening from a phone and tablet, a portable amp/dac would be best for me. I'm sure there are some good ones for ~$300? Or, would I be better off to forget the portable amp/dac and spring for a more "tabletop" like unit if the money would be better spent e.g. more bang for the buck on one of them.

 

[serman005]

In addition to the audio-gd suggested by @ProtegeManiac, you could get yourself into a Schiit Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber stack, which would also work for you. There is also the JDS Labs O2/ODAC combo, which would also do. Maybe read about them and see what you think.

 

[buke9]

Was just checking as a lot of people here do a lot of recording themselves so was just wondering. If you want a portable the Audioquest Dragonfly Red is one to look into. I have only heard it in pre amp mode feeding a high dollar amp that I ended up buying so no comment on the amp side but it does push out 2.1volt rms so it should run just about anything and the dac and pre amp sounded pretty dang good but my Yggy sounds better (way down the rabbit hole I am ; ) ). It runs like $198.75 on Amazon all the way up to $237.75 and in between for bundles with different adapters for phone and tablet use. Just a thought.

 

[mysticstryk]

If you want a portable, get the AQ Dragonfly Red. If at home, buy a Modi 2 and Magni 2 (or Vali 2 if you want tubes) stack. Fulla 2 if you want an all in one.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Ideally, $300 or less would be great. I do not want to put a ton of money into this (I've been down the rabbit hole with guitar and recording equipment- ouch!), but I would appreciate the better results of course. Yes, I am in the US.

Spend a little more than that and there practically won't be any need for any upgrades unless you get very hard to drive planars or electrostats.

Oh and prices on Meier's website include global shipping, so what price you see for the Jazz FF is all you need to consider. Last I checked the US is still free trade compliant too, unless the President decides to clamp down and charge taxes on all shipments coming in, even when not in commercial quantity. I actually bought a Meier amp before and sent it to our address in California, then picked it up when I flew back in and brought it back out.

Just plugging the 3.5mm/1/4" cord into the jack coming out of the computer or rack (different studios have different equipment so not sure which). For home use, its just the standard sound card in the laptop.

Thanks, some good advice. I think that since I do a lot of listening from a phone and tablet, a portable amp/dac would be best for me. I'm sure there are some good ones for ~$300? Or, would I be better off to forget the portable amp/dac and spring for a more "tabletop" like unit if the money would be better spent e.g. more bang for the buck on one of them.

For the same price point you're more likely to get less distortion and more power out of a desktop amp; portables only tend to have an advantage in background noise. Still, some desktop amps like the O2 and others made by JDSLabs, plus the Meiers, have very low noise that some lesser portable amps might even have more noise. And then there's the battery on portable units that, while newer designs will last for a long time, will still likely wear out sooner than for a desktop unit to break anything barring tubes.

Are you going to use the portable amp outside? Because you can't even use the HD600 anywhere else outside your home due to how much noise they let in and how much noise they'll broadcast everywhere. You might as well get a desktop unit to use at home, just something you can easily move around the house unless you have polio or scoliosis.

Like this Meier Cantate.2, which has a USB DAC built in that is being used by the iPad and SGS3.

Or instead of a portable, something more transportable. Very compact (if maybe having an external PSU) that you can pack it into one of your gear cases if you have any of those chests that you get roadies to haul around so you have more time with groupies or getting plastered (or both, depends on the band really).

Note3 for scale.

 

[Andrew Shafer]

I've been looking at some options and that Schiit Modi 2 looks pretty cool. I see that there are three versions, does anyone know if the multibit is worth the $150 more than the base model, or if the uber is worth $50 more than the base model? Also, as far as amps go, the Magni 2 and uber come at a good price but the Vali 2 appears to be tube driven. In the guitar world, tubes are generally regarded in higher esteem than solid state amps but I'm not familiar with the headphone arena so does anyone have a comment on that?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I've been looking at some options and that Schiit Modi 2 looks pretty cool. I see that there are three versions, does anyone know if the multibit is worth the $150 more than the base model, or if the uber is worth $50 more than the base model?

If you SPDIF inputs then the Uber is worht the extra $50.

Also, as far as amps go, the Magni 2 and uber come at a good price but the Vali 2 appears to be tube driven. In the guitar world, tubes are generally regarded in higher esteem than solid state amps but I'm not familiar with the headphone arena so does anyone have a comment on that?

Vali2 uses tubes for the preamp stage to control the solid state output stage, not driver tubes, not a pure tube design.

Tube amps are widely regarded for guitar amps because they're designed to color the sound a certain way that the guitarist prefers. On playback devices the idea is to have less coloration since the coloration from the guitarist's preferred configuration on his Marshall or Mesa Boogie amp is already in the recording itself.

That said a little bit of coloration to reduce the glare of crappy recordings isn't necessarily a bad thing, just make sure the tube isn't microphonic or otherwise adding too much noise.

 

[Andrew Shafer]

If you SPDIF inputs then the Uber is worht the extra $50.



Vali2 uses tubes for the preamp stage to control the solid state output stage, not driver tubes, not a pure tube design.

Tube amps are widely regarded for guitar amps because they're designed to color the sound a certain way that the guitarist prefers. On playback devices the idea is to have less coloration since the coloration from the guitarist's preferred configuration on his Marshall or Mesa Boogie amp is already in the recording itself.

That said a little bit of coloration to reduce the glare of crappy recordings isn't necessarily a bad thing, just make sure the tube isn't microphonic or otherwise adding too much noise.

Thanks for the helpful info. So If I were to get the Vali 2 and Modi Multibit, would I see a pretty big bump in performance vs just the output of my 1/8th" on my phone or laptop? These HD600's I feel could use some more volume to help round out/fill out the sound.

 

[buke9]

Thanks for the helpful info. So If I were to get the Vali 2 and Modi Multibit, would I see a pretty big bump in performance vs just the output of my 1/8th" on my phone or laptop? These HD600's I feel could use some more volume to help round out/fill out the sound.

Yes that would be a big difference I'm sure. A Bottlehead Crack would be a better choice but that might be another story.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks for the helpful info. So If I were to get the Vali 2 and Modi Multibit, would I see a pretty big bump in performance vs just the output of my 1/8th" on my phone or laptop? These HD600's I feel could use some more volume to help round out/fill out the sound.

If you're listening at a loud enough volume that the laptop is struggling, then yes, it will be fairly easy to hear for me.

Problem is I don't know what output level specifically, I might not have access to the same laptop, and I can't tell you if you will be able to tell that the percussion has a more solid, tighter "thud!" or "slam" for example.