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Can hip-hop/metal damage electrostatics?

May 14, 2006 at 11:44 PM Post #16 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Actual
Do you mean that the HE60 sounds good with rock and metal or that you have confirmed it with people working for Sennheiser that low bass has no negative long term effects on the drivers? I think most Head-Fiers could attest that all practically all genres sound great on the higher-end electrostatics.

I have the SR-404 by Stax and listen to a moderate amount of music with bass on par to hip-hop/metal so I hope that I haven't been damaging them. Whoever wrote the FAQ for SimplyStax would certainly know more about this than me, but I would still like to get a second opinion.


Both. I listen to rock and metal in them and I talked to a few Sennheiser reps about it a few times and all of them told me that is untrue. There is some classical and other music that has more bass then rock/rap.

-Alex-
 
May 14, 2006 at 11:52 PM Post #17 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by [AK]Zip
Both. I listen to rock and metal in them and I talked to a few Sennheiser reps about it a few times and all of them told me that is untrue. There is some classical and other music that has more bass then rock/rap.

-Alex-


Cool, a Sennheiser rep is enough to offset an official Stax dealer for me.

I imagine some other people have already done this, but I'll go email some Stax people to see what they say. If I hear back I will post again in this thread.

Right now I'm betting (or hoping) that it is only a problem at high volume levels.
 
May 14, 2006 at 11:59 PM Post #18 of 33
In his ad in HiFi world (UK mag) this guy says he sells more stax than anyone else on the planet and also that he is one of the few with a complete range of stax on demo all the time.


He seems to be someone who would know his stuff.

It'd be hard not to believe him despite what you might want to believe!

Fran
 
May 15, 2006 at 12:15 AM Post #19 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Actual
Right now I'm betting (or hoping) that it is only a problem at high volume levels.


high volume is not the forte of the electrostatic driver. excelent clarity and detail is.

please be very carefull with the whole detail thing. if you are not absoutley in love with their music it only takes one or two playings for a singer with a lispy, whiney, or phlemby voice to get very old. hearing the pedals on a piano as they play is cool though.
 
May 15, 2006 at 1:46 AM Post #21 of 33
I have driven my SR-202 pretty damn loud with many kinds of music and have never heard them clip. Older model electrostatics (and my own personal experience therein is limited to the Koss ESP9) were, conversely, very prone to clipping. Im not sure how far back in Stax' modelline youd have to go for this to apply, but Id assume that with the difference in electrode spacing between pro and normal bias systems, the normals bias ones with the smaller seperation distance would be more likely to make damaging contact.
 
May 15, 2006 at 4:36 AM Post #22 of 33
Quote:

Regretfully and unfortunately, STAX equipment is total unsuited to hip-hop. The bass energy in that type of music will progressively weaken the very thin electrostatic membranes. The membranes will 'bottom' and will touch the 550v electrostatic panels, creating tiny burn-holes that over time will become larger. This type of damage is very characteristic and consequently is not covered under warranty.


The mylar diaphragm used in electrostatics are supposed to be _very_ durable, in fact it would probably withstand more abuse than your average dynamic headphone and I believe what he is describing here is called "arcing".

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ghlight=arcing

Quote:

The articles refer to "burn holes" created by the membranes touching the stators. The burns would likely be caused by arcing, where a charge jumps between the membrane and stator. You'd know it if you heard it; this is not something that happens quietly in the background. The membrane is normally insulated from the stator. If that insulation is intact, it prevents arcing. If you persistently bottom out the headphone, it's conceivable that you could wear out the insulation, but not likely.


 
May 15, 2006 at 8:08 AM Post #23 of 33
My 2 cents:

1.) Use will shorten any equipment's lifespan.
(yet don't forget that in about 40 years electrostats loose their charge...)
2.) Some uses will be degrading certain parts faster.
Our ears are not as sensitive in the lower-frequency region, so we need more of it. Look at the graph of foobar or other audio curve while playing - you see a lot more bass, don't you? The diaphragm needs to move more air, and therefore has a higher excursion. This results in two things: it gets closer to the strator; and the material gets worn from the longer stretching.

However, I wouldn't be afraid of this.
You need high volumes and long excursions to get close to the strator. With normal use, it should last a long time; maybe even the 40 years will pass sooner.
 
May 15, 2006 at 8:16 AM Post #24 of 33
Chalk that one up as an urban myth. Properly designed electrostatic transducers are more robust than most dynamic ones.

ESLs with their 10000v plus biases can get burn holes in their stators over time from bottoming out, but to do so with a headphone with a 500-600v bias would take ages unless you listen at harmfull levels.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank M
(yet don't forget that in about 40 years electrostats loose their charge...)


That's electrets. Electrostatics are externally charged.
 
May 17, 2006 at 10:10 PM Post #27 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta
Carl, can you cite a source for this "electrets lose their charge after 40 years" stuff?


I doubt they do, but it's at least theoretically possible for them to lose their charge over time. I think the "40 years" figure is a bit arbitrary, as electrets from the early 70s are still working great, however.

What I was trying to say was that electrostatics are wholely immune to ever losing their charge, as they use external charging.
 
May 20, 2006 at 5:24 AM Post #28 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl
What I was trying to say was that electrostatics are wholely immune to ever losing their charge, as they use external charging.


Since in an external-bias electrostat it's the diaphragm's coating that holds the charge, immunity is strictly a function of how well the coating sticks.
 
May 20, 2006 at 8:10 AM Post #29 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta
Since in an external-bias electrostat it's the diaphragm's coating that holds the charge, immunity is strictly a function of how well the coating sticks.


You'd be hard pressed to get the graphite off the mylar on any well-made electrostatic without damaging the stators in the process.
 
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