Can hip-hop/metal damage electrostatics?

[Nomad]

Hi,

I was reading a FAQ in SimplyStax (Stax Dealer) and I found this intriguing statement:

Quote:

I mostly listen to metal and on the odd occasion hip hop, are STAX suited to such tastes? Regretfully and unfortunately, STAX equipment is total unsuited to hip-hop. The bass energy in that type of music will progressively weaken the very thin electrostatic membranes. The membranes will 'bottom' and will touch the 550v electrostatic panels, creating tiny burn-holes that over time will become larger. This type of damage is very characteristic and consequently is not covered under warranty. Thus, based on your musical tastes (I'm a metal lover myself, but never on STAX) you should be looking for conventional cone-drive headphones. I'm not a stockist of anything other than STAX, but I suspect that Grado and Sennheiser may be the ideal solution for you

Can this be true? I'm familiar with the structure and thin materials on electrostatics but still I would expect for Stax (or Senn) electrostatic headphones to be able to handle any kind of music if we are not talking about crazy volume settings.

On the other side, the author of this FAQ is regarded as a true Stax expert and he is even stating something that goes against his own interest as he would lose some deals by posting this on his website.

 

[skylinedo]

its prob true then

 

[Fitz]

If that were true they'd be equally unsuitable for classical too.

 

[jagorev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz If that were true they'd be equally unsuitable for classical too.

Care to explain? I've not heard any classical that has the sort of bass hip-hop does.

 

[K2Grey]

1812 overture?

 

[muckluck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagorev Care to explain? I've not heard any classical that has the sort of bass hip-hop does.

Don't those cannons in 1812 Overture go pretty low? I imagine some of those big drums also produce a lot of bass. I know nothing about classical music, but I imagine some of it has a pretty decent amount of bass in it.

 

[eduj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad Hi, I was reading a FAQ in SimplyStax (Stax Dealer) and I found this intriguing statement: Can this be true? I'm familiar with the structure and thin materials on electrostatics but still I would expect for Stax (or Senn) electrostatic headphones to be able to handle any kind of music if we are not talking about crazy volume settings. On the other side, the author of this FAQ is regarded as a true Stax expert and he is even stating something that goes against his own interest as he would lose some deals by posting this on his website.

i've been using electrostatics for rock/metal for years (sr003,Lambdas) with no problem although i don t listen very loud.This is the first time i hear that bass heavy music can destroy them.Sounds like BS

.In fact SR003/001 are great for hip hop because of the strong elastic bass they have.Should i only listen to new age with them?

 

[jagorev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by muckluck Don't those cannons in 1812 Overture go pretty low? I imagine some of those big drums also produce a lot of bass. I know nothing about classical music, but I imagine some of it has a pretty decent amount of bass in it.

Well, there are a couple of brief examples, but even those aren't as low, loud, or long-lasting as any typical hip-hop song. On average, classical would put less strain on diaphragms, because it simply is not as bass-intensive most of the time. 1812 overture is a pretty atypical piece for classical.

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagorev Care to explain? I've not heard any classical that has the sort of bass hip-hop does.

I don't think it's so much an issue specifically with bass as it is with volume levels. At sane volume levels neither should be a problem at all, but if you're playing loud enough for the bass in metal/hip-hop to bottom out the membrane against the stators, then you'd also have a huge problem with the dynamic range in classical during loud passages. Actually you'd have a problem with pretty much any music if you were playing it that loud.

It wouldn't be fair at all to compare hip-hop played loudly to classical played reasonably. It's a volume issue, not a music issue.

 

[Spare Tire]

The guys says the membrane has to touch the electrodes. That depends on the amplitude of the signal, and i presume it would also happen with high frequencies. Then what's the problem with bass particularly? Maybe since the frequency is lower, the time the membrane sticks to the electrode is longer if it happens?
Anyways, if your volume is low then the membrane wouldn't come close to the electrodes. So just keep the volume low. I'm just assuming here. You better ask the guy again about this.

EDIT: ah, Fitz beat me to it

EDIT2: He says "The bass energy in that type of music will progressively weaken the very thin electrostatic membranes." Maybe it means that bass stretches the membrane for longer and it will lose it's elasticity.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz I don't think it's so much an issue specifically with bass as it is with volume levels. At sane volume levels neither should be a problem at all, but if you're playing loud enough for the bass in metal/hip-hop to bottom out the membrane against the stators, then you'd also have a huge problem with the dynamic range in classical during loud passages. Actually you'd have a problem with pretty much any music if you were playing it that loud. It wouldn't be fair at all to compare hip-hop played loudly to classical played reasonably. It's a volume issue, not a music issue.

What he said.

 

[setmenu]

Another thing to watch out for is music containing lots of the very lowest
frequencies but without much midbass thump.
I have a couple of techno/trance type recordings that seem quite subdued
sounding in their mids and upper registers etc that encourage the volume to
be cranked up.
These would definitely risk hitting the stops with the Stax if not careful.
When playing them on a speaker based system it is possible to see the cones
flapping to and fro at incredibly low Hz for little or no sound output.
I guess this music must have been designed for enormous cone size and
power,for that subliminal rumble effect.

On the whole I do not worry about the Stax as I don't go in for ear
bleeding spl.

.

 

[[AK]Zip]

The HE60's have no problem with rock or metal at all.

-Alex-

 

[The Actual]

Quote:

Originally Posted by [AK]Zip The HE60's have no problem with rock or metal at all. -Alex-

Do you mean that the HE60 sounds good with rock and metal or that you have confirmed it with people working for Sennheiser that low bass has no negative long term effects on the drivers? I think most Head-Fiers could attest that all practically all genres sound great on the higher-end electrostatics.

I have the SR-404 by Stax and listen to a moderate amount of music with bass on par to hip-hop/metal so I hope that I haven't been damaging them. Whoever wrote the FAQ for SimplyStax would certainly know more about this than me, but I would still like to get a second opinion.

 

[TheMarchingMule]

This is indeed an odd 'urban myth' atm. The only true way to find is to track the life of an electrostat...may take awhile though, ne?