Can 16Bit/48kHz be considered as aptX HD level? (re: Avantree DG60)
Aug 9, 2019 at 6:50 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 42

RadarJammer

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There is a new USB Bluetooth transmitter dongle by Avantree hitting the markets at the moment, which I preordered at their 40% early order discount and which I received as one of the first customers at the beginning of August well in time.

https://avantree.com/dg60-bluetooth-usb-audio-transmitter

The DG60 offers apart from long range, Bluetooth audio and communication capabilities Bluetooth broadcast, too.
What interested me were the aptX, aptX LL and aptX HD codecs in the rare combination with headset communication, so listening to BT HD quality and being able to use Skype on PC with a single connection was finally possible.

It was originally and until a few days ago advertized with:

"Using aptX-HD, wirelessly stream 24 Bit music quality for a ‘better-than-CD’ listening experience." [this is now removed on their site]

The DG60 works really well in practice I found - except:

On the USB side it is only recognized as fixed 16Bit/48kHz USB audio device in both Windows 10 and Android. No other settings possible!

That means everything else has to be up- or downsampled to 16Bit/48kHz. Is that still acceptable as an aptX HD quality level they keep advertising?

I wrote Avantree customer support (I also urged them to offer LDAC transmitters) and they opened a ticket. In their reply they confirmed my finding:

"Thanks for the feedback, it is extremely helpful.
We're currently working on licensing LDAC for our future transmitters.

As for the HD quality issue, though the DG60 does support 24 bit, we noticed that all current computers only support 16-bit when using the USB port... we'll be updating our listings so customers don't get confused or feel mislead.

Best,

Avantree Support"
 
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Aug 10, 2019 at 11:30 AM Post #2 of 42
That means everything else has to be up- or downsampled to 16Bit/48kHz. Is that still acceptable as an aptX HD quality level they keep advertising?

Whether it's 16 or 24bit is irrelevant because 16bit is already beyond the capabilities of the human ear. The only potential audible problem could be the downsampling process itself. I say "potential" because it's been easily possible to downsample transparently for many years but it's possible that windows might be using a downsampling process that isn't entirely transparent, although I don't know if this is the case.

G
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 1:46 PM Post #3 of 42
Whether it's 16 or 24bit is irrelevant because 16bit is already beyond the capabilities of the human ear. The only potential audible problem could be the downsampling process itself. I say "potential" because it's been easily possible to downsample transparently for many years but it's possible that windows might be using a downsampling process that isn't entirely transparent, although I don't know if this is the case.

G
Isn't 16 bit/48kHz beyond the capabilities of what AptX HD can losslessly reproduce, anyway?
 
Aug 15, 2019 at 7:19 AM Post #4 of 42
Isn't 16 bit/48kHz beyond the capabilities of what AptX HD can losslessly reproduce, anyway?

To be honest, it's a bit unclear and I haven't really delved into the facts vs marketing hype. On the one hand it claims to provide up to 48kHz/24bit losslessly but on the other hand it has a data rate of 576kbps, which is about a quarter of the required data rate. They would therefore have to use a lossless data compression algorithm but all the algorithms I know have max compression ratios around 1.8:1, less than half what would be required. So, either they've come up with a new algo that's more than twice as efficient as any other lossless algo or, there is some lossy compression occurring and the marketing is false. Even 16/48 would require a significantly more efficient lossless algo (about 2.6:1).

G
 
Jul 28, 2020 at 11:56 PM Post #7 of 42
I was asked to return my Avantree DG60 due the 16bit issue, I got sent a newer revision months later, it is 24bit/48HZ.

The Voice broadcast function (in RED bellow) was also removed as was buggy and hard to get to work or so they told me.

Tthe big main button now selects either LL Codecs (FastSream & SBC & aptX LL) or HD Codecs (aptX & aptX HD) < Yes I know not all are HD but the opposite of the LL ones so if your headphone have both aptX and AptX HD its a right PIA to try get it to lock to HD.


Annotation 2020-07-29 045234.png




Annotation 2020-07-29 051447.png
 
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Jul 31, 2020 at 7:54 AM Post #9 of 42
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Aug 1, 2020 at 10:13 AM Post #10 of 42
Aug 1, 2020 at 1:24 PM Post #11 of 42
This is new and you can select/force the codec via a button.

" Creative BT-W3 supports 4 different Bluetooth codecs—aptX LL, aptX HD, aptX, and SBC"

" As long as your Bluetooth device support the corresponding codec, Creative BT-W3 will default to aptX LL first, with aptX HD next in priority, then aptX, and finally SBC"

" With the indicator light and codec selection button, you can easily tell which codec you're using and switch to the suitable codec for your usage effortlessly"


https://uk.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bt-w3
 
Aug 1, 2020 at 5:59 PM Post #12 of 42
If you want to transmit LDAC, you can use the Shanling Q1 player via USB to Bluetooth.
 
Aug 2, 2020 at 10:20 AM Post #13 of 42
This is new and you can select/force the codec via a button.

" Creative BT-W3 supports 4 different Bluetooth codecs—aptX LL, aptX HD, aptX, and SBC"

" As long as your Bluetooth device support the corresponding codec, Creative BT-W3 will default to aptX LL first, with aptX HD next in priority, then aptX, and finally SBC"

" With the indicator light and codec selection button, you can easily tell which codec you're using and switch to the suitable codec for your usage effortlessly"


https://uk.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bt-w3
Product specs:

"aptX-LL (16 bit/44KHz ~40ms)
aptX-HD (16 bit/48KHz)"

So, again 16 bit?
 
Aug 2, 2020 at 11:49 AM Post #14 of 42
Not sure as aptX-HD is 24bit, but as Creative have had USB Soundcards/DACs for years that can now do 32bit/192K (X3) I assume they can get it to work in Windows as Avantree finally did.

The Bowers & Wilkins P14's aptX Adaptive I owned a few months ago could also be use via USB and they appeared as a Soundcard/DAC in Windows 10 and it was 24/96 for me.
 
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Aug 2, 2020 at 12:22 PM Post #15 of 42
Not sure as aptX-HD is 24bit, but as Creative have had USB Soundcards/DACs for years that can now do 32bit/192K (X3) I assume they can get it to work in Windows as Avantree finally did.

The Bowers & Wilkins P14's aptX Adaptive I owned a few months ago could also be use via USB and they appeared as a Soundcard/DAC in Windows 10 and it was 24/96 for me.
I will see, I ordered both the 1Mii and the Creative from Amazon and will check.

BTW, what really annoys me: I have Philips Android TV and both Netflix and Prime Video refuse to play a stream when USB audio is connected. OTOH, Google's own apps do play without problems.
That's with the avantree connected.
 
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