[rutter]

The HD800S has way better bass than the Solaris. Maybe you're thinking of the HD800. In fact, the detail and I suppose "texture" is something I haven't heard in other full-size headphones. Unfortunately the sound is overall dry and vocals are lifeless, not to mention my ears rung with it.

 

[Kitechaser]

Woah there edge-lord. I didn't comment on other qualities of the HD800s. The IER-Z1R has overpowering bass if you're listening through crap is my impression. Overall it's better than the Solaris in my opinion, but it has its own shortcomings and doesn't bust out of the IEM sound so I sold it.



Turns out the Sony ZX300 + Fiio A5 sounds better with the HD650 than the iBasso DX220. It appears you were right about Sony doing something special spatially. The DAC of the ZX300 definitely outperforms the DX220 spatially in my experience. But at this points I'm not surprised by ****ters in "head" audio. Still keeping it for portable use but obviously I wouldn't go around like a headless chicken/Whitigir raving about it.

Yeah Sony is doing something special, the WM1A is a clear step above the ZX300 in that department too.
If you ever get a chance to listen to the DMP-Z1, give that a go. I'll be getting it sometime next year, its expensive, but worth every penny.
True holographic rendering, I think you would enjoy it, even if only as an audition.
Outside of my iem, I would love to pair it with my Magnepan speaker system.

 

[40lb]

Two TOTL IEMs, two different solutions resulting in such size differences.

 

[Indeez]

Yesterday I made another attempt to listen to Solaris. Also I was tired. After 15 minutes of listening session I have catch headache. It is absolutely abnormal. After switching over from Solaris to Atlas, headache has gone.

If I suppose that Solaris has naturalness, I wonder why there is no headache when I am listening live concert (I assume this is nearest to natural sound), for example.

 

[rutter]

$8000 is not something I have.

 

[candlejack]

It's a good point (and a good experiment). Despite being an analyst by trade, I didn't explain myself very well at all there - what I was trying to say was that even the most faithful reproductions of a sound wave may be interpreted differently by two different brains, as the process of turning the information back into "music" in the head is a very unique and personal one for each listener, and is coloured by their own personal hearing efficiencies/deficiencies and preferences. I agree that you can use measurements to validate some absolute facts about a headphone, but as you say, the rigour and the means required to do that is beyond the means of most on this site bar a very select few (I'm definitely not one of them!).

Wasn't on the side of "measurement is bad" in any particular argument as I think they do serve a useful purpose, but I do like to acknowledge that in something as subjective as listening to music, they also don't tell the whole picture sometimes.

No, I get that and I think we are in agreement.

I would just highlight that this subjectivity applies not only to the headphone but to the recording and to music itself. Two people might sit next to each other at a concert, one having the time of his life, the other completely unimpressed.

However, the goal of the headphone should be to reproduce sound as faithfully as possible and leave the creative part to the musician, producer, etc. That's why I think it's possible to say that headphone A is better than headphone B (yes, based on measurements, not auditions), because its mission is purely a technical one. Not as easy to do with musician A and musician B or even recording A and recording B, because the artistic side comes into play and that is very much subjective.

That is at least my vision. Some headphone manufacturers (if not all) are trying to play artist themselves and add their own flavor to the sound reproduction. In a world where all headphones are equally far ("far" criteria to be determined) from the reference, they are all equally good and subjective assessment is all that we have left.

 

[candlejack]

This is cliche to think about Atlas as bass/subbass. Atlas is DD which covers whole range of sound, i.e. mids and highs too. If Solaris is unacceptable for me but Atlas is enjoy, maybe this is because of DD mids and highs?

I was just teasing. I for one don't like the Atlas, but I don't think you're crazy if you do. No need to justify (to others) what you like, but you're also not going to convince me that the Atlas sounds more natural than the Solaris.

 

[Kitechaser]

$8000 is not something I have.

I know. Its a crazy hobby for sure.

 

[rutter]

This has never been a hobby for me. It's mere entertainment. I have no idea how or why this hobby conception came about. Maybe it's to rationalize the terrible value and the pervasive flaws.

 

[Kitechaser]

No, I get that and I think we are in agreement.

I would just highlight that this subjectivity applies not only to the headphone but to the recording and to music itself. Two people might sit next to each other at a concert, one having the time of his life, the other completely unimpressed.

However, the goal of the headphone should be to reproduce sound as faithfully as possible and leave the creative part to the musician, producer, etc. That's why I think it's possible to say that headphone A is better than headphone B (yes, based on measurements, not auditions), because its mission is purely a technical one. Not as easy to do with musician A and musician B or even recording A and recording B, because the artistic side comes into play and that is very much subjective.

That is at least my vision. Some headphone manufacturers (if not all) are trying to play artist themselves and add their own flavor to the sound reproduction. In a world where all headphones are equally far ("far" criteria to be determined) from the reference, they are all equally good and subjective assessment is all that we have left.

The most natural sounding iem that I have ever heard, where every instrument sounds to my ears exactly as it does in person, looks like this on a graph.

I listen to 80% instrumental, jazz and classical music, instrument tonality is my biggest area of focus.

In summary, what works for you, might not work for me. There is no right tuning.

 

[Kitechaser]

This has never been a hobby for me. It's mere entertainment. I have no idea how or why this hobby conception came about. Maybe it's to rationalize the terrible value and the pervasive flaws.

People spend way way more money on cars, shoes.. you name it.
Is a Porsche good value, when a Toyota Camry will get you from point A to point B just as well?
There is not an iem/headphone/speaker system out there, no matter the money spent, that doesn't have "flaws".
No such thing as perfection.

 

[subguy812]

I have said many times in my reviews, at this TOTL level none of them suck, it just matters if the signature checks your boxes. It truly comes down to the signature. Some HP's/IEMs may have the tone you are looking for or the soundstage or correct amount of sub bass, all of this is subjective and personal. I do not ever want anyone to base their purchase solely from my review, you need to read many. Many of the people who follow me know my favorite signature which is why I include some subjectivity. The rest is all about what you can expect from a certain HP/IEM. It all boils down to finding a signature that checks your boxes, and only you can answer that. Happy listening, which is the reason we all dove into the rabbit hole.

 

[fokta]

Hahahaa.... please be nice guys...

was surprised that @rutter was here... seems u went to headphone...
Still using DX228 I assumed?

Well hope u get the sound sig u looking for...

 

[Rockwell75]

I've moved on from IEMs but some of you should expand your horizons at least a little bit.

For me it's less a matter of believing IEMs can compete with full size cans in terms of sound, staging etc. and more about the fact that I'm not cut out for the latter. Most of my listening is done on the go and I've never been comfortable wearing full size headphones-- not sure if it's the shape of my head or a just a simple tolerance issue. Suffice to say IEMs are the way to go for me. That said I'm going to be in Manhattan for a few days next week and one of my plans is to stop by Audio 46 and hopefully demo a few IEMs, in particular the Z1R so I can finally form my own impressions.

 

[antdroid]

I think headphones and iems compliment each other for different situations. They have their pros and cons. Comparing them against one another isn't a fair assessment for either of them.