Campfire - Solaris
Mar 20, 2019 at 1:13 AM Post #4,233 of 12,035
Mar 20, 2019 at 4:01 AM Post #4,234 of 12,035
All he asked for was a FR graph... Harman already PUBLISHED their ideal FR for iems and headphones that they are actively trying to achieve, has the copycats done anything about it?

Another way to put it: Tyll has measured FR of so many HD800s. You would probably get a good idea of what Senn's target is by taking the average. Has Senn sued Tyll yet?
Hahaha......you must pay no attention to Chi-fi at all. I cannot remember how many Chi-fi companies use "we tuned our shxts according to Harman Target" as a major selling point, such as Moondrop & Fearless Audio.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 6:18 AM Post #4,235 of 12,035
Loving this for my portable 'working from a cafe' setup: MacBook Pro > Roon > Shanling M5s (balanced line out) > iFi xCan (balanced input) > iFi IEMatch 2.5 > Campfire Solaris (Super Litz 2.5) :ksc75smile:

IMG_3985.jpg
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 9:21 AM Post #4,236 of 12,035
Whatever I quoted is specifically what I was responding to. In this case, it was the suggestion that the manufacturer not sending him the target curve is somehow dodging, and/or that discussing channel matching is dodging. I believe Ken Ball described to some degree in a previous post generally how they do matching, and that's about as much process detail as you get from most manufacturers.

My point with the HD800's was showing how the same model of headphone has differing sensitivity from unit to unit (at least at 40 Hz; and at somewhat higher frequencies, too, as evidenced by the harmonic distortion spurs), but it was consistent for both channels per unit. Matching, then, is actually a very important step. It's obviously not the only important step, but it is obviously important.

If you watch what I believe is Tyll's last InnerFidelity video he shows the Klippel system MrSpeakers uses to do multi-parameter driver matching. Others use it, too, but most manufacturers don't publicly discuss their specific procedures and processes in that regard as openly as Dan Clark does in that video.

I was also making the point that with headphones and earphones we can get measurement variations. we measure several seatings and average to get the curve -- that if we saw no variation, we'd simply measure once. Picking a random headphone from Tyll's database -- and looking at the variation in frequency response -- you see things like this (Fig.1 below):


(Above) Fig.1 Example of frequency response variance of the same headphone from different seatings, from InnerFidelity (https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK240Monitor.pdf)

That's the same headphone, being measured by Tyll Hertsens, on the same fixture, and probably in the same measurement session.

In addition to stellar driver matching by Sennheiser, another thing that makes the Sennheiser HD800 easier to get consistent measurements with is its shallow, firm earpad design. The HD800/HD800S earpads do not compress/deflect like super plush earpads can, making very consistent measurement positioning and repeatability -- and achieving symmetry of both channels during the seating process -- far easier than with headphones that have thick, soft, squishy earpads.

Different IEM designs measure more (or less) consistently, too, in my experience. For IEMs, there's going to be some variation, and you're likely to run into it more with some designs than others. For our measurement fixtures, for example, an IEM that fits into the concha and essentially locks into place firmly -- something like, for example, a Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless (Fig.2,3,4 below) -- is much more likely to give more consistent seat-to-seat measurements, in our experience, with the type of human-like GRAS anthropometric pinnae we use here on both fixtures (GRAS 45CA and GRAS 45BB-12). I'll measure the Solaris (and will post results when I do), and I imagine it won't be as consistent from seating to seating (as the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless), as it's a large-body IEM (Fig.5,6,7,8 below), and there's more room for movement in the ear, even after it's seated -- it just doesn't nestle its entire shape into the ear as completely as the Momentum True Wireless.

All of this, and there are also varying degrees of unit-to-unit variation with any headphone or IEM.


(Above) Fig.2 Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless in GRAS anthropometric pinna.

(Above) Fig.3 Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless in GRAS anthropometric pinna.


(Above) Fig.4 Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless in GRAS anthropometric pinna.


(Above) Fig.5 Campfire Audio Solaris in GRAS anthropometric pinna.


(Above) Fig.6 Campfire Audio Solaris in GRAS anthropometric pinna.


(Above) Fig.7 Campfire Audio Solaris in GRAS anthropometric pinna.


(Above) Fig.8 Campfire Audio Solaris in GRAS anthropometric pinna.

@jude I think you know me to be a knowledgeable person in this area and I'm not going to butt in too much, but claiming measurement variance to explain @crinacle 's findings is erroneous

  1. You cannot compare headphone measurements to insert earphones in terms of consistency between measurements.
  2. You're showing anthropomorphic pinna and IEMs, Crin doesn't use pinna
  3. Measurements done in standalone 711s are extremely consistent between takes. I can easily do repeat measurements on the same DUT and get results within .5 dB from 10Hz to 10kHz no problem.
  4. Crin is obviously very meticulous and skilled in his measurements with his 711. Just look at his database and track record. I have no qualms with using his measurements as reference.
I will not comment on the reasons for the intersample variance seen, but I would not brush it off as measurement error, that would be incorrect.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 11:06 AM Post #4,237 of 12,035
Mar 20, 2019 at 1:55 PM Post #4,239 of 12,035


Winter in Japan.
Turned off heater to not mess up sound and room temp went from 75 degrees to 35 in 26 minutes.
TL/DW, Love it.


Awesome review. It's great to hear from someone who shares the same opinions and impressions as you do. It's also nice to hear someone confirm my sense that the bass in these things is a win.
 
Last edited:
Mar 20, 2019 at 2:57 PM Post #4,241 of 12,035
Anyone else 5'8? These things are awful ergonomically. I've tried most of the e-type tip sizes and the sound is quite off. Lean, thin, and very ordinary. Using the default thick tip makes more sense but my ears quickly heat up. The wire doesn't sit right and the way they stick out I see no rhyme or reason to whether they are in correctly.

Bass sucks. I'm assuming that's fit, and in the package I seem to have no options, lol.
 
Last edited:
Mar 20, 2019 at 3:03 PM Post #4,242 of 12,035
Using the default thick tip

You mean the foam? The tips I found the most success with were the stock silicons (not the Finals). If the sound is lean and thin you're not getting a good seal. The wire is malleable so once you get them in your ears right adjust the wire (ie., bend it) around your ears. I hope you get it to work.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 3:17 PM Post #4,244 of 12,035
Are you referring to the wide ones?

Yeah the one of which there are only 6 (and which has the brush thing in it).
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 3:24 PM Post #4,245 of 12,035
I think I'm getting a decent fit from one of the wide pairs which I was avoiding as the narrower bores are supposed to improve/increase bass. Wire tucked in behind the ears. Mediocre sound at best, definitely bass light. There's not a single quality that stands out, perhaps for maybe some sizzle in the highs which is kind of nice? The HD650 is unquestionably better. This is decent sound for an earbud, definitely better than the $10 and $80 crap I've been using but $1500, o my God!! Wow!

I'll burn in the words burn in on my stomach if things improve dramatically enough over the next week.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top